CR vs AMA

[Tapout]

Fancy words for the KD that took 15k acres and then leave thier allies to get declared by AMA before a deal is made. Its like leaving a man behind in war to bleed out while you proceed to pump the acres you gained in GB to proceed and try to crown. No one else here took acres and left thier friends to die in war vs AMA.

All kingdoms involved needed a cf and meters cleared from AMA so they went back to how they were prior GB. I don't know how pyro thinks backing out whilst their ally is left fighting is ok but whatever.

I'm sorry doesn't the post from TheOne state clearly that aCF to all parties involved in the GB was offered by Elit:

12 hours before AMA declared rage, Nesta got a deal with Elit which is 1) CF to all parties involved in the gb to eoa 2) AMA do not crown 3) AMA will not shape charts this age. Yes this does not mean that AMA will raze a single cow acre (but they can choose to do so if they decide to go warring after this. this is up to them), but I believe this is what the alliance strive to achieve. AMA loses its' crowning chances, and AMA will not shape charts, and there's eoacf to all those involved in the gb. In fact, I am just wondering whether did we actually have a fixed goal/target at the start, but I recall the general sentiments are those 3.

So, it is clear that it is a CF to all parties involved in gb. I do not wish to take logs from the alliance channel and post it here.

So you are saying that TheOne is either lying about the deal that was offered or you are saying that you rejected a CF for all parties?

[TommyB]

So you are saying that TheOne is either lying about the deal that was offered or you are saying that you rejected a CF for all parties?

Yes, they wanted AMA to intra-raze their cows as well. The bigger issue here is lack of trust between all involved parties (unsurprisingly).

[Elit]

Every one can make his own judge

[21:10] <Drixx> I can agree to that
[21:10] <Drixx> I also can agree that I will personally apologize on the forums for not finding a diplomatic solution to this BEFORE the gb began
[21:10] <Drixx> because I really did try
[21:10] <Drixx> and this whole mess has been stupid
[21:10] <Drixx> I have to go
[21:10] <Drixx> but I will be back in 8-9 hours
[21:10] <Drixx> leave me the terms you want
[21:10] <Drixx> I'll do my best to get all parties to agree
[21:10] <Elit> this gb totaly cross line and was done very stupid
[21:10] <Elit> if you didn't pk 5 provs
[21:11] <Elit> we had option to go war
[21:11] <Elit> for honor/ww chart
[21:11] <Elit> how we can war now?
[21:11] <Elit> you didn't left us any so its hard to get solution
[21:11] <Drixx> Well, I really have to go host my guests
[21:12] <Drixx> Tell me what will end this, and I'll make it happen (within reason)
[21:12] <Drixx> I can agree to everything you've said so far
------
[01:27] <Elit> i think for begin you can tell rusty and simians to stop
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> you're welcome to get in a channel with everybody
[01:27] <Elit> and dont pk
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> no
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> not happening
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> the moment you agree to a deal it happens
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> not a second earlier
[01:27] <Elit> ah
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> with no pressure on you
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> why should you agree to a deal?
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> I wouldn't if I were you
[01:27] <Elit> ok
[01:27] <Elit> so you dont look for deal?
[01:27] <Cerberus_v666> no, I want a deal
[01:28] <Cerberus_v666> WELL
[01:28] <Cerberus_v666> let's back this up
[01:28] <Elit> and if you want deal why pk?
[01:28] <Cerberus_v666> if you get in a conversation
[01:28] <Cerberus_v666> with all the other leaders
[01:28] <Cerberus_v666> and work out a resolution
[01:28] <Cerberus_v666> and get tem to hold hits
[01:28] <Elit> you want deal but you plan to keep pk
[01:28] <Cerberus_v666> whiel I get drixx on to agree
[01:28] <Elit> and how you can get deal
[01:28] <Cerberus_v666> then they can hold hits
[01:29] <Cerberus_v666> hmm
[01:29] <Cerberus_v666> how about this elit
[01:29] <Cerberus_v666> we'll keep razing
[01:29] <Cerberus_v666> but I'll tell them not to pk
[01:29] <Cerberus_v666> as long as we're discussing things
[01:29] <Cerberus_v666> they'll only raze your core?
-----------------------------
07:19] <Elit> so did you decide
[07:22] <Elit> hmm
[07:22] <Elit> i just notice there is new pk
[07:22] <Elit> look like your group is really retard
[07:22] <Elit> guess we will cf only if cr give up run for n1
[07:23] <Elit> told cerbeus pk need to stop
[07:23] <Drixx> I was tied up all day as I said
[07:23] <Drixx> only came back to the computer like 45 minutes ago
[07:24] <Drixx> not really up to speed on things
[07:24] <Elit> man this is total bs
[07:24] <Elit> if you want deal dont pk
[07:24] <Elit> its simple
[07:24] <Elit> and i told it cerberus
[07:25] <Elit> this have noting with "fair play"
[07:26] <Drixx> like I've been trying to tell you
[07:26] <Drixx> I didn't organize this and I'm not running this
[07:26] <Drixx> also, I can't raze your land while in war with you
[07:26] <Drixx> so obviously I'm not razekilling you
[07:26] <Elit> your kd is part from it
[07:27] <Drixx> we can't raze acres ... if we use raze it just destroys buildings
[07:27] <Elit> you are in same chann with rest idiots
[07:27] <Drixx> As I told you earlier, I spent the time before GB talking to cello and proteus to try and get you to talk to me for diplomacy
[07:27] <Drixx> I'm not running this
[07:27] <Elit> if you dont support it leave them
[07:28] <Drixx> and the only reason RBL joined was becuase pyros had a small chance to win the age before you dealbroke and we were supporting them
[07:28] <Drixx> ironic that they got the acres and then left lol
[07:29] <Elit> all i can say is im serious pissed now
[07:32] <Elit> if you want deal make it next 2-3h on terms i proposed
[07:32] <Elit> after it there wone be deal if havoc dont gave up n1
[07:32] <Elit> its total cross any line
[07:54] <Elit> and if you think its excuse you cant raze us its not
[07:54] <Elit> your kd is part from all GB and have his vote in alliance chann for gb
[07:55] <Drixx> I did not organize and am not running the GB
[07:55] <Elit> so say who is doing it
[07:55] <Elit> post in in forum
[07:55] <Elit> put finger
[07:55] <Drixx> I told you who to talk to earlier
[07:56] <Elit> and say you DONT SUPPORT IT
[07:56] <Elit> and take your kd out from it and take act against it
[07:56] <Elit> im not going to talk with havoc

[Tapout]

Yes, they wanted AMA to intra-raze their cows as well. The bigger issue here is lack of trust between all involved parties (unsurprisingly).

Thank you, though I would like to see them admit that it was them who turned down a CF for all parties - thus prolonging this farce and leaving their so called 'allies' vulnerable to being warred by AMA. I would also like to see the justification for turning the CF down and why cow razes are necessary.

I'm also slightly confused as to why they are in an alliance with KDs who they don't think can take a GB'd AMA 1 v1 in a war anyway - I mean talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight...

[Lupine]

So many hypocrites in here! CF was offered to all parties in the GB even before Ama declare RBL! and yet people are over demanding to an extend they ignore the game spirit. What do you need more? 25 PK? AMA disband? Not to ignore people actually spend REAL money to buy credits and form a organized KD, so who are you folks to play GOD and tell people to disband or play bully?

If a KD is offered a CF and declined it, then it gets declared for handling the button to opposing kd, i see there's no misunderstanding and definitely a 1v1 fair fight. So now a 20vs25 provinces war AMA is already on the weaker side, and so called FAIR PLAY alliance razes into their war. How is this a fairplay?

[13nesta13]

Hi everyone.

I will try to clear any doubts here, in one post. Not sure how successful I will ever be.

I will share logs here, and I removed parts where it wasn?t crucial, to avoid excessive spam, certainly not to tweak anyone?s words or intentions. In places I removed chunks, I put in place of them (??s). If I inadvertently did so, I apologise, and if anyone requests a full version to check, I can oblige too, depending on what stake you hold in all of this saga. I will bold certain parts which are especially crucial.

Logs are presented in chronological sequence, except the first chunk and 2nd chunk, because they happened concurrently in two windows, one in FairPlayAlliance (FPA) channel and the other with Elit.

My stance on my participation/non-participation in this GB is clear. I sought to do my part to punish the Dealbreak, and reinstate CR?s crowning chances, rather than conveniently staying out. The group also offered me the prospect of setting up an equal acreage showdown with CR after this episode is completed.

As per my post earlier, it was impossible to seek a deal where everybody was 100% happy. It needed compromise from some parties, but it is evident below that the FPA was not keen. It was you accept our terms straight, or end with 25 greens.

By the end of the CR-AMA war, I managed to get Elit to agree to staying out of crown contention (details can be ironed out like how acre cap was fixed on RBL last age, or they cant be a certain % within top 2 come Yr11, w/e.), have all meters on FPA members reset and AMA EOACF all in top10(the likes of Legacy were not explicitly named but I?m sure it can be cast in black and white too, when both parties showed interest to the deal). Only point was he?s not going to raze his banks.

Topsy and I was agreeable to exploring this option, but the rest weren?t. They wanted to see AMA halve their banks. My rationale to the group is, if they kept 19k banks, who were they more likely to use them to dealbreak and FSU? I was the one at the most risk, with more 15-17k banks, rather than anyone else in this FPA. And if even I can accept the deal, I don?t see why anyone would be more against them keeping the bank. Let?s face it, if Elit wanted to FSU, he can do it, even with 10k banks. He?ll be FSU-ing either CR?s or our calves, maybe even our cows when sent out on battle. Topsy had to leave the discussion at an inconvenient time where he couldn?t back me up in this and I was soon over-run by the rest. I was asking, you guys hell bent on disbanding AMA? And I have unanimous replies like ?Yes, I don?t give a fk if they do?, ?those dirty ******s deserve it totally for dealbreaking?. With the game now decreasing in players age after age, it saddens me to think the group can be that unanimous on this proposition. Are they that scared of fighting Elit in coming ages? Because let?s face it, he has proven to be one of the best strategists left in this game now. I myself, wouldn?t want to see that happening before I can go 1 v 1 against him.

What kind of bull**** negotiation/diplo is this?
[05:38] Parthenogenesis Im fine with both those suggestions
[05:38] Parthenogenesis Mainly cause I know elit wont take it anyway
[05:38] Ryan__ i agree to those terms
[05:38] Ryan__ Those terms sound sgood to me.. and if he doesnt agree, 25 greens

Also, I told them I can at least see 3 good things coming out of this GB, #1 we at least know if elit is committed to keeping deals in the future, because we do give him another chance to dealbreak possibly and we see if he keeps his words, #2 everyone in the server knows we will clamp in on dealbreak and come together to show our stance, and enforce action, #3 it also reduces the animosity among the top. Elit himself promised to raze oow those who killed his provinces in this gb next age. The more PKs we keep up, the more likely he will pursue this next age. Do we really want to play a game next age where 3-4 weeks in, everyone stops and comes and gb elit again for hitting into war? Elit will love that, because we?ll be giving him what he wants. Server attention on him, and make him feel the game revolves around him. I?m sure we don?t want to boost his ego that manner right? :P

Jokes aside, objectives achieved, as Palem and I thought the same. #1 punishment dealt, no crown for AMA + PKs, #2 Left nobody hanging since EOACF and meter reset, #3 War between CR-AMA in time to come.

To correct Zauper, I did not ask for additional participation for this GB. Your KD did, the likes of maximouse and co. They were of the belief that more KDs, the more affirmative the message, and the more PKs and faster end to this. I did not paste logs of this, because I am focusing on post AMA-CR war settlement below.

As for your next query of whether or not we raze our gains (13k), you can see my exchange with munk, FPA and Elit below. As far as PyroManiaCs and myself are concerned, we upheld to the deals/objectives set out by the group as I shared above. That we cannot come to a common point where it can/should stop, it is a shame. I can no longer not stand for being part of FPA pursuing this GB in the name of vendetta rather than fairplay, using precedents to justify AMA going to 25 green.
I offered to raze my gains in same manner as I stacked them (I don?t know how hard that will be through intra raze because 1 raze on 1 cow =2k+-3k, way more than 1 single cow stacked through the GB, but for sure 4k gained on cows = total 4k lost from cows, 9k from core = 9k lost from core), to get everyone in FPA to sign for the deal I negotiated, and that constituted CR to drop similar acres (since that was our agreement.). Seeing that I did every part of my end of the bargain, I fail to see why I should raze if CR doesn?t. And that is what I told munk.

I also told munk and topsy, if we want the end of this GB resolution as AMA's banks being halved, why would you not want PyroManiaCs to remove them, whilst we were able to much more safely in war? I emphasised so many times in FPA channel over the course of 48h war with CR. Instead, we left them there, bounced on them, so that they can WD and have 48h EOWCF where they can repump and CR cant touch them, and my cows can no longer remove them safely without risking my own. Are you guys that bad at strategising or what? I thought that wasnt the case, so I asked Topsy, do you trust those cow acres on Elit more than you do on me, that I wouldnt remove them once all this is over. Topsy said no, that he trusted me more than Elit of course (see logs).

Having those acres forcefully removed by us hitting them and razing them away ourselves once all was done and dusted was 10x more viable, and easy for diplo. As guardian or soul_hunter said, they would rather have their banks dropped in war, than to suffer 5-7 PKs as punishment for dealbreaking. And now, we demand them to go through the humiliation of razing their own banks themselves post GB, AFTER they have 5-7 PK'ed, or else GB continues. We all know Elit will never agree to that.

Logs as below. Will bold the key ideas.
---------------------------------
[04:12] Ryan__ i have been saying / suggesting a wave date for about 24hrs now
[04:12] NesTa13 i have been sharing how things have been progressing with topsy all this while, consistently. i am not a superman, i cannot type in 3 channels with each window moving forward every 20 seconds
[04:13] Cerberus_v666 here are more than 3 kingdoms inolved here
[04:13] NesTa13 thats what i suggested, Cerberus_v666
[04:13] Cerberus_v666 and the you went nad talked to him yoruselr
[04:13] Cerberus_v666 so yeah
[04:14] Cerberus_v666 I refuse to accept any deal that leaves him with cows
[04:14] maximouse unacceptable
[04:14] NesTa13 now Cerberus_v666 just so i make myself clear here, what did i not achieve here than what we set out to do?
[04:14] Cerberus_v666 you achieved nothing nesta
[04:14] maximouse no offer can be made to ama where they keep banks
[04:15] Cerberus_v666 you clearly hve a different idea of what we're setting out to do
[04:15] NesTa13 our original intentions #1 to make a stance on dealbreak. #2 to leave no parties hanging post AMA conflict #3 to have CR and Pyro fight a war
[04:15] Cerberus_v666 than the others in this channel
[04:16] Cerberus_v666 nobody cares about #3
[04:16] Cerberus_v666 except pyro and CR
[04:16] Cerberus_v666 I give 0 ****s about that
[04:16] Cerberus_v666 #3 is making sure ama can't **** us over
[04:16] maximouse no deal where they are in a position to shape the charts is acceptable. We all agreed on this. I expect everybody to keep their word
[04:16] maximouse the end
[04:16] Cerberus_v666 that's why you needed the shut up
[04:16] Cerberus_v666 and not talk to elit for everyone else
[04:17] NesTa13 since when, maximouse ? topsy told me he is willing to explore that
[04:17] Cerberus_v666 you are not properly representing the interests of everyone else
[04:17] Cerberus_v666 I'm not
?????
[04:57] Parthenogenesis Who is AGAINST going on til 25 green?
[04:57] topsy not me
[04:57] Parthenogenesis anri?
[04:57] Parthenogenesis Drixx?
[04:57] Parthenogenesis Nesta?
[04:57] NesTa13 i am
[04:57] Anri|afk no, might as well kill them for being dicks and threaten us non stop
[04:57] Realm Im fine. they deal break as a kd. so they can die as a kd
[04:57] Parthenogenesis Anyone else?
[04:58] Anri|afk i been banged with 250 kds, i could take it, so can elit
[04:59] Parthenogenesis I think what we need to land on is probably 25 green.
[04:59] Cerberus_v666 the cf proposal I suggested is one I'm okay with
[04:59] Parthenogenesis Id be happy to end the discussion there, and pyro will have to follow suit
[04:59] Cerberus_v666 they said they wouldn't raze 1 acre
[04:59] NesTa13 and why was that so? because we tried to take them down inside war, when they were being bounced? and i was cool with razing off myself after knowing my banks were safe
[05:00] NesTa13 yet when we were able to drop them, you guys told us not to?
[05:00] NesTa13 thats why they have 19k now
[05:00] Cerberus_v666 nesta, not relevant
[05:00] NesTa13 and now you're blaming us that they have 19k? for not acting?
[05:00] NesTa13 its relevant
[05:00] NesTa13 everything is
[05:00] topsy the 2 big banks were staying
[05:00] Cerberus_v666 we're blaming you for wanting to stop
[05:00] topsy its the elves/humans in the middle that need to go
[05:00] topsy because they are the ones that can be opened up to others
[05:00] NesTa13 the group bounced him, so that ama can wd in 48h min time, to repump?
[05:01] NesTa13 then why dont u bounce the middle humans/elves, topsy
[05:01] NesTa13 you're not making sense
??
[05:34] Ryan__ ^ so whats your call Topsy / drixx / Cerb / Pyro..?
[05:35] Anri|afk he gotta know we will come at him at full POWER now, if he does not accept terms
?
[05:35] Anri|afk we make all go green if he does not take the terms
[05:36] Ryan__ so what is the Deal we are prosing and what is the ultamateum?? Please post or PM me so i know pls
[05:36] Parthenogenesis Whats the unlitmatum you had in mind?
[05:36] Anri|afk we do whatever the **** we want and take them to 25 greens
[05:37] Cerberus_v666 1. AMA withdraws from land/nw crown, can't be within 20% in last week. CR AMA eoa nap unless mutually decided otherwise.
[05:37] Cerberus_v666 2. CR Pyro war Feb 1 YR 10 (or some date)
[05:37] Cerberus_v666 3. AMA drops cows to 10k
[05:37] Cerberus_v666 4. Relations reset (no buttons), no vendetta/future mention of this as a reason for ANYTHING in the future ever. All GB'ing kd's have the option of EOA CF with ama, or 96h notice CF, with duration decided by the non-ama kingdom.
[05:37] Cerberus_v666 5. Anybody who ama has razed acres from, gets those acres back from AMA.
[05:37] Drixx Cfs everyone, razes cows down to what they were before dealbreak, takes back threats of future retaliation, publically admits he dealbroke and was wrong.
[05:38] Parthenogenesis Im fine with both those suggestions
[05:38] Parthenogenesis Mainly cause I know elit wont take it anyway
[05:38] Ryan__ i agree to those terms
[05:38] Ryan__ Those terms sound sgood to me.. and if he doesnt agree, 25 greens
[05:39] Ryan__ good
[05:39] Ryan__ we agree
[05:39] maximouse I agree with what cerb posted
[05:39] Parthenogenesis Ok go for it anri
[05:39] Ryan__ lol guys, who the **** cares if elit doesnt agree... so what... he doesnt agree, he gets 25 greens
?..
[05:52] Anri|afk cJ and NesTa13
[05:52] Anri|afk can you confirm plz
[05:53] NesTa13 what will it take for us to stay out. we stay in until CR 96h expires? we self raze 12.9k? i dont want to leave the group hanging but i just think this isnt right, when they were willing to cf, but you guys dont trust them to not dealbreak again. i still think 25 greens is extremist and dont wish to go there
?..
[05:55] maximouse we got together because we didnt think it was right for them to shape the charts this way
[05:55] maximouse why would we now leave them in a position to still do that?
[05:55] Anri|afk makes no sense
[05:56] maximouse they are 142K acres or something with 5 pk'd provs
[05:56] Anri|afk and we gotta show them we mean business
?.
[05:56] NesTa13 they promised not to shape the charts
[05:56] Drixx Bull**** nesta
?..
[05:56] Drixx they aren't willing to cf
[05:56] NesTa13 they even thought of the fact that pew needs to get the cf
?
[05:56] NesTa13 because they cant fight pew with 5 pked
[05:56] Anri|afk but we gotta show we mean business
?
[05:57] Anri|afk NesTa13 they promised?
[05:57] maximouse nesta, which promise do you believe? Cause they promised a dozen times it doesnt end here and that they will target everybody involved this age or next age. Now they promise not to shape the charts, but we just have to take their word on it?
...
[05:57] NesTa13 next age, whats wrong with fighting it out next age?
[05:57] NesTa13 this is a war game
[05:58] maximouse nothing wrong
[05:58] Anri|afk next age, sure lets fight but they cant be allowed to fight now
[05:58] Anri|afk dont u get that
[05:58] NesTa13 and they have no wish to
[05:58] maximouse but he also promised he would shape the charts this age
[05:58] NesTa13 he did not
?.
[05:59] Ryan__ pyro jsut are to kind hearted and gullable for t10 i guess
[05:59] Anri|afk they working pyro over because they know its the weak link in dip
[05:59] Anri|afk to inexperienced
[05:59] Anri|afk sry NesTa13 but you are
[05:59] Anri|afk way to naive here
[05:59] NesTa13 i have not talked to proteus one bit just fyi
?.
[06:01] Drixx [16:24] <PS> looks like this **** blowing up in ur face like i told u huh?
[06:01] Drixx [16:24] <PS> shouldve listened to me yet again i love it
[06:01] Drixx [16:25] <PS> now mt logic get urself out of this one
[06:01] Drixx [16:25] <Drixx> The only problem, currently, is that pyros wants to take their gains and have everyone CF so they can win the age and not keep dealing with this
[06:01] Drixx [16:25] <Drixx> so I guess if you told me not to ally with pyros, you told me so
[06:01] Drixx [16:25] <PS> dude i told u
[06:01] Drixx [16:25] <PS> bec u was being unfair
[06:01] Drixx [16:25] <PS> and cr used u
[06:01] Drixx [16:25] <PS> now ur losing support bec ppl see cr ****played
[06:01] Drixx [16:26] <PS> now ur on ur own
?.

[06:03] Drixx and I'm embarassed that it's one of my allies (who is the only kd so far who was allowed to gain land from this situation!) who is trying to back out
[06:03] Anri|afk there is no going back now
[06:03] Anri|afk pyro should not been here if they cant back now
[06:04] Anri|afk i had left pyro to die vs amas ****play rather
[06:04] Drixx IMO, backing out now is the same as siding with AMA
[06:04] Anri|afk they in it, they better bring it and kill it with us
[06:04] Drixx and since Pyros benefitted from this, it would put them in line to be 25 greened as well
[06:04] Anri|afk you cant hit a big guy then leave him still standing
[06:04] Anri|afk you gotta take him out
?..
[06:08] AmericanBadass NesTa13, AMA is just getting in your heads. Elit will claim unfair so much to get what he wants
[06:09] AmericanBadass We need to see them banks razed to at LEASt 10k land, I'd say <6k to be sure they wont hit into Pyro vs havoc war. Obviously Elit lost the weight of his word with this deal break
[06:10] AmericanBadass Nesta, what has Elit/Proteus/PS told you?
[06:11] Drixx should remove nesta and cj from this channel
[06:11] Drixx they already said they intend to take a deal
?.
[06:12] Devolution rdy to get rid if need be
[06:12] AmericanBadass hmm, Does pyro wantto break there deals they made here? Pyro you realise any deal now you make with AMA voids our one and Havoc does not have to raze acres down?
[06:12] AmericanBadass The whole deals get scrapped.
?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(note: timestamp as of Elit?s local time. I lost my logs with Elit because I didn?t use autosave, hence I asked him for it. My local time is +6 hours different, so 21:11 below is 3:11 for me.)
01[21:11] <Elit> hi
[21:11] <NesTa13> i apologised to you, not sure if you caught it.
[21:11] <NesTa13> and i also hope we can try to all move on.
01[21:12] <Elit> i read your post in forum and posted reply
01[21:12] <Elit> its good you apologize for logs, its was mistake ppl to share logs
01[21:13] <Elit> but its kinda late for us to move on after 5 pk
01[21:13] <Elit> what left for us now?
01[21:13] <Elit> we cant really war any kd
01[21:13] <Elit> why you needed to pk provs and cross all lines with it
?
01[21:17] <Elit> because if we have won it we have shot for WW chart
01[21:18] <Elit> after it if havoc win over us its dont matter its up our relative nw oponent, so its still work for us good
?
01[21:19] <Elit> im share it now what was our plans
01[21:19] <Elit> before we get razed from havoc
01[21:19] <Elit> so you can get better general idea
[21:19] <NesTa13> yes
01[21:19] <Elit> how we are feel
[21:19] <NesTa13> it makes a lot of sense
[21:19] <NesTa13> there's still a lot to fight for
[21:20] <NesTa13> if you want to try win WW charts then why you so concerned about CR fighting you 8 days later?
01[21:20] <Elit> but razes put us in disadvantage and after it havoc start demand deals what dont help us
[21:20] <NesTa13> when they offered that, it already means they wont 2 v 1
01[21:20] <Elit> because razes put us in disadvantage
01[21:20] <Elit> vs pyro
01[21:20] <Elit> and i dont like it
[21:20] <NesTa13> yes i know
01[21:21] <Elit> if i wanted to be lame was easy to vulture pyro oow with simians
[21:21] <NesTa13> but still cant prove CR was responsible 100%
01[21:21] <Elit> i wanted REAL FAIR WAR and razes killed it
[21:21] <NesTa13> if i read the conversations in forum correct
01[21:21] <Elit> why to war you?
01[21:21] <Elit> so pyro can say you win war when you dont win it proper?
01[21:22] <Elit> and after it CJ refuse to offer me help in 2vs1 prove my suspect you only look for free war win vs us
[21:22] <NesTa13> nope, definitely not what we want
01[21:22] <Elit> same way you get win vs ED last age
01[21:22] <Elit> its was my feeling
[21:22] <NesTa13> i know you can send another 13k up and fight us if all went smoothly without remote
[21:23] <NesTa13> you didnt talk to me enough, like i said, and i am sorry i didnt give my answer
01[21:23] <Elit> you are less time online
[21:23] <NesTa13> i didnt know u thought it was bad for 8 days rest after war
[21:23] <NesTa13> yes. i am in china again
01[21:23] <Elit> and i know CJ share with you logs
?
01[21:23] <Elit> so im put main blama on CJ for it
?.
01[21:25] <Elit> but in general all this join gb was huge mistake from your kd
01[21:25] <Elit> you dont really gain from it
?
[21:25] <NesTa13> i saw a dealbreak, and ama members admitted to dealbreak
01[21:25] <Elit> ad its why i was so mad
[21:26] <NesTa13> and drixx and CR ask for help
01[21:26] <Elit> and i posted you what i posted after your kd joined GB
[21:26] <NesTa13> and i gave
01[21:26] <Elit> and you can expect from me to make it in future
01[21:26] <Elit> so you can learn and not join in gbs
01[21:26] <Elit> for all my ages play uto i never was involved in GB other kd
01[21:26] <Elit> its never end good in long terms
?
[21:27] <NesTa13> you noticed i stopped earliest among the whole group hitting you right
01[21:28] <Elit> yes i notice
[21:28] <NesTa13> not trying to say this means i am trying to make better friendship with you or anything
?
[21:30] <NesTa13> now the issue is they think you dont want to move on. i am willing to raze my gains here
01[21:30] <Elit> terms they propose is not acceptable
01[21:30] <Elit> we have noting to loss
[21:30] <NesTa13> problem is you still have button on rage and simians
01[21:30] <Elit> why need to acept them
[21:30] <NesTa13> and they ask us to keep hitting
[21:31] <NesTa13> i am trying to find a solution because i really dont want to do that, or see a reason to do that
01[21:31] <Elit> for begin we wont drop any acres from cows
01[21:31] <Elit> and we wont try play for n1
01[21:31] <Elit> i gave up it moment we deal broke
?
[21:32] <NesTa13> but if you dont drop acres from cows you know you cant get any war right? if you did you can easily get another 2-3 wars?
?
01[21:35] <Elit> we can make deal include we wont aim for n1 land and we dont drop cow acres, same time i need some kind compensation for pked provs and free gains for them
01[21:35] <Elit> with terms like it i can cf all ingame and its include eoa nap rage/pew/havoc/pyro
01[21:35] <Elit> you cant jump on us later and demand acres
[21:36] <NesTa13> i see there's no simians inside the deal
[21:36] <NesTa13> is it on purpose?
01[21:36] <Elit> its was before
01[21:36] <Elit> im pissed on simians
01[21:36] <Elit> now i can change my mind
?
[21:45] <NesTa13> so you still think you rather CF all and just stay where you are and grow with your pool?
[21:45] <NesTa13> like rage last age?
[21:45] <NesTa13> rather than dropping ?
[21:52] <NesTa13> i'll try and talk to them if thats what you want
01[21:54] <Elit> im not sure about plans
01[21:54] <Elit> but im not razing acres
01[21:54] <Elit> we give n1 land chart for kd
01[21:54] <Elit> and im ok for eoa rage/pyro/haoc/pew pew
01[21:54] <Elit> i can cf ingame simians/rusty most like
(shares logs with topsy regarding updates on nego)
?
01[21:56] <Elit> if ppl dont trust its cant be helped
[21:56] <NesTa13> i trust you
01[21:56] <Elit> but if we make deal im going to keep it
01[21:56] <Elit> and same time im going to keep my grude next age
01[21:56] <Elit> he need to worry for next age not this age
[21:57] <NesTa13> when you say grudge, do you mean ****play again? or you will find them and fight them
[21:57] <NesTa13> because if its the 2nd choice, im sure he wont have problems with that, neither us, or simians or anyone else
?
01[21:58] <Elit> [21:57] <NesTa13> when you say grudge, do you mean ****play again?
01[21:59] <Elit> i did 0 **** play all age
01[21:59] <Elit> so dont say it
01[21:59] <Elit> and grudge mean gruge
01[21:59] <Elit> and have wont have cf again next ages
01[22:00] <Elit> they cant war if dont pump helf age
01[22:00] <Elit> its alone is killer for them
01[22:00] <Elit> i dont need to GB ppl for punish
?
[22:07] <NesTa13> so just for the record
[22:07] <NesTa13> you said you cf all, you talking about those who gb'ed? or people like pew legacy who didnt join
01[22:08] <Elit> pew pew need to be in deal
01[22:08] <Elit> for eoa nap
01[22:08] <Elit> we cant really want them with 5 pked
01[22:09] <Elit> and i dont want pew pew to try get land from us
01[22:09] <Elit> its kind chart shape if rest have cfs
(shared some logs of FPA with Elit)
???????.
01[22:25] <Elit> i see you made them mad :)
01[22:25] <Elit> but for sure we are not going to raze 1 acres
01[22:26] <Elit> you can refer to drixx last age
01[22:26] <Elit> if we make deal how i told you we will keep it, but im going for pay back havoc next age
01[22:27] <Elit> so its last chance for them to get win :P
01[22:27] <Elit> tbh i dont really care
?
[22:30] <NesTa13> elit i need to know better if you mean dealbreak next age.
[22:30] <NesTa13> if you make no deals then its another story
01[22:31] <Elit> im not going to make deals wiht them
01[22:31] <Elit> so there wont be any deal break
01[22:32] <Elit> for next age
?
01[22:42] <Elit> and i just read again proposed
01[22:42] <Elit> lol no vendeta
01[22:42] <Elit> you can tell them to **** off
[22:43] <NesTa13> lol
01[22:43] <Elit> i will make sure rage and havoc disband
01[22:43] <Elit> its all
01[22:44] <Elit> you can TRUST me
?..
01[23:21] <Elit> moment
[23:25] <NesTa13> anri talking to you now huh?
01[23:27] <Elit> yes
01[23:27] <Elit> im asking him why dont want deal
[23:27] <NesTa13> he said he cant talk on behalf of the group right
[23:27] <NesTa13> thats what they told me
[23:27] <NesTa13> to shut up and stop talking to u
[23:27] <NesTa13> because what i am trying to discuss with you, they wont accept
?
01[23:31] <Elit> tbh i prefer if we can end all with deal and keep it
01[23:31] <Elit> but we wont raze any acres for sure
?.
[00:00] <NesTa13> did u promise to shape chart this age?
[00:00] <NesTa13> i guess u did, in a way
[00:00] <NesTa13> u dont want CR to win
?
01[00:17] <Elit> [00:16] <Proteus-> I'm talking to anri on phone irc
01[00:17] <Elit> [00:16] <Proteus-> U know what he propose
01[00:17] <Elit> [00:16] <Proteus-> We cf and gb pyro
01[00:17] <Elit> [00:16] <Proteus-> Lol
[00:18] <NesTa13> phone?
[00:18] <NesTa13> lol
?


[02:51] munk i think therr are alot of misunderstandings out there
[02:52] munk ppl seem to think that u have agred to have ama farm out to u next
[02:52] NesTa13 thats a load of bull
[02:52] NesTa13 it will never happen
[02:52] munk i understand ur reasons partly to stop, id wanted to get a fair solution aswell
[02:53] NesTa13 im only stopping this and i found what i thought was a fair solution short of ama ending with 25 greens
[02:53] NesTa13 but the group didnt see it that way
[02:53] munk well i saw us demanding their cows to ge 10k?
[02:53] munk in the group
?
[02:54] NesTa13 i did, but topsy and i thought it wasnt the crux of the deal
[02:55] NesTa13 because if they had 10k banks and wanted to **** us, it will still come
[02:55] NesTa13 and lets face it, when they have 19k banks, who's more at risk? isnt it me?
[02:55] NesTa13 why wouldnt i push for it if i thought it was a risk
[02:55] munk so what would u have suggested?
[02:55] munk just believe elit to accept a cf now and not to hit into war etc?
[02:56] munk and is it true u intend to keep cow acres?
[02:56] NesTa13 i said if elit interferes, via breaking a cf, or hitting into us, whichever party will raze off a same amount
[02:56] NesTa13 thats out of war
[02:57] NesTa13 if in war, we havent discussed it but im sure we can agree something. if a 10k bank wants to **** our 11-13k top core baby banks
[02:57] munk and ur current cow acres?
[02:57] NesTa13 its the same isnt it? its a FSU move
[02:57] NesTa13 i said i will raze my (excess) cow acres once your war was done with AMA
[02:58] NesTa13 seems like you were more concerned with me breaking the deal rather than AMA having giant banks
[02:58] NesTa13 i could have dealt with them in the war, you guys didnt want us to act
[02:58] NesTa13 i would be willing to remove any excess acres gained on my cows
[02:58] NesTa13 just before i made the decision to pull out, i said this was too much, we cannot continue
[02:58] munk sure, i just have heard diff things - considering how u left the group it would seem wrong to keep them
[02:59] NesTa13 i could remove my gains ie. 12.9k in as much as possible similar way as we stacked them off
[02:59] NesTa13 stacked them on*
[02:59] munk what are u waiti g for then?
[02:59] NesTa13 that was the deal i promised, to get everyone in the group an EOACF and reset the meter for the group
[03:00] NesTa13 you may read logs from the operationgg yesterday.
[03:00] munk so elit was gonna give eowcf to everyone?
[03:00] NesTa13 yes
[03:00] NesTa13 even pew included
[03:00] NesTa13 ie, those who didnt gb
[03:00] munk elit said that?
[03:00] NesTa13 he just wanted to sit on them, like rage did last age
[03:00] NesTa13 and ride out the age
[03:00] munk u believe that?
[03:00] NesTa13 he said he had chess competition, and didnt see a point being hyper active in the remainder of the age which he couldnt crown
[03:01] NesTa13 i did, if not i wouldnt have been agreeable, and pushed for the group to accept
[03:01] munk done is done - so ure razing gained acres?
[03:02] NesTa13 im razing acres equal to CR if you wish, if you arent agreeable we'll just keep it. because i agreed for that to get everyone an eoacf. and seeing that didnt work i dont see why that is necessary.
[03:03] NesTa13 because i will keep to it, whereby everyone in the gb group gets a settlement, and we end up equal acreage as CR
[03:03] NesTa13 thereby constituting that, if we raze, you raze, and everyone gets a eoacf
[03:03] NesTa13 that didnt work out
[03:03] munk so u want to keep what u got to gain from gb, exit when it suits u and keep acres.
?
[03:05] NesTa13 ama dealbroke, and the cost was a GB that resulted in 5 pked, and 2 more close to brink of death
[03:05] NesTa13 and on top of that, a deal that made them cant win the age
[03:06] NesTa13 how is that not punishment enough?
[03:06] munk yes
[03:06] NesTa13 i kept to my deals, bailed you guys out, and sought to end it amicably
[03:06] NesTa13 which we did
[03:06] munk but why does pyro gain?
[03:06] munk k
[03:06] munk just wanted to hear u say it
[03:06] munk cos i didnt believe it
[03:06] NesTa13 i think you just heard something very different from what you were told
[03:07] NesTa13 am i right to say that?
[03:07] munk i was told that pyro are looking to keep acres they gained without keeping to the deal of no kd left behind
[03:07] munk i didnt believe that
[03:08] munk opting out of the group should have meant to raze those acres imo
[03:08] NesTa13 i will wait to see what CR does post 96h
[03:08] NesTa13 now you are bounded by game mechanics to not act
[03:08] NesTa13 so time will tell
[03:09] munk are u saying we have to raze to be smaller than before db.
[03:09] munk for u to give back the acres u took from ama
[03:09] NesTa13 im not, you can try to figure what i mean, there's no need to insinuate anything
[03:10] NesTa13 same reason now i can wave rusty if im out of hte group for acres
[03:10] NesTa13 but i chose not to, before everything is resolved
[03:10] NesTa13 you with me on this?
[03:10] NesTa13 if you think all previous agreements of the deal goes down the drain, let me know this instant
[03:10] NesTa13 because i dont know what you think is fair
[03:11] NesTa13 as it stands we had an option where all involved gets 96h notice deals till after we war.
[03:11] NesTa13 so question, are we warring? and if so, when? and if so, is it 1 v 1?
[03:11] NesTa13 next question, do those involved get new cf deals with me, or are they void?
[03:11] NesTa13 so many questions, so i say, its not possible to diplo everything all at once
[03:11] NesTa13 its indeed a mess when 6 kds try to diplo one solution
[03:12] NesTa13 i tried my best last night
[03:12] NesTa13 if you thought 4 out of the 5 kds says we give AMA green, but i think we shouldnt, why should we adhere to numbers of majority? this especially when topsy was willing to reason and work something beyond the possibility of AMA dealbreaking again
[03:13] NesTa13 the group didnt wish to explore any options rather than giving elit an offer he cannot accept, and forcing it to 25 greens
[03:13] NesTa13 but pardon me, i cannot accept that either
[03:13] munk mmh - there are conflicting interests
[03:13] munk and its hard to fairplay all
[03:14] munk on paper it does look like pyro gained most
[03:16] NesTa13 it does look like that on paper, but why dont you compare it to when i didnt step in? i want to point 2 facts. #1 you couldnt have gotten out of this this way without our help, maybe you could still win, but not by that margin, we alone forced non-action on their top half for close to 24h, #2 i tried to control AMA banks in war, but you guys didnt want me to. you guys had equal fault in...
[03:16] NesTa13 ...resulting that AMA banks became so big. and then now when everything is over, you guys want to demand them to raze to get a cf. is that fair?
[03:17] NesTa13 so it became a choice, did you trust us more to raze our bank acres after we dealt with AMA, or did u trust AMA to not dealbreak again once we reached a 2nd deal post war?
[03:17] NesTa13 being shaved off bank acres when everything is inside war and gb is still ongoing full force was more legit and elit wouldnt have more to complain
[03:18] NesTa13 that we have them shave even more acres post war
[03:18] NesTa13 obviously he's not gonna accept that
[03:18] NesTa13 he told me, he cant even land drop now to fight war crown. he had 7 decimated. what else do you want from him?
[03:18] NesTa13 he just wants his banks to stay at respectable sizes
[03:21] munk but most of the problem with ama was that thry didnt wNt to accept their fault
[03:22] NesTa13 so now that you heard everything, do you agree that diplo would be 10 times easier if we didnt have to demand them to half their banks post war? which could have been averted if we took them away, and raze off ourselves, and we proceed to our war fairly
[03:22] NesTa13 im definitely not in this to gain it
[03:22] NesTa13 else i wont agree to get all in that group the deal, by razing 13k myself
[03:22] munk iwanted to give a deal with elit so we could move on
[03:23] NesTa13 but give him something reasonable and can accept. he really has nothing to play for in the age, and he knows he will get ****ed if he breaks it again, and this time with BB and Pew ****ing them too
[03:23] NesTa13 ryan promised me that, so did flogger
[03:23] NesTa13 in my midst of trying to get a fair solution out from all
[03:23] munk id support that
[03:23] munk tho ppl still dont trust elit
?
[03:29] NesTa13 yea but really, we should seek out some positives at least, out of the dealbreak.
[03:29] NesTa13 i can see so many good things that can happen if we solved it nicely
[03:30] NesTa13 dont keep thinking of precedents, like oh... last time 5 ages ago when it was dealbreak, it was 25 greens, now it shouldnt be different
[03:30] NesTa13 so few players are left in this game, so many good kds have disbanded
[03:31] NesTa13 the way i see it, at least 2 positive things could have come out if we solved the situation yesterday. that #1 we at least know if elit is committed to playing fair in the future, because we do give him another chance to dealbreak possibly and see if he keeps his words, and #2 everyone in the server knows we will clamp in on dealbreak and come together to show our stance, and action enforced
[03:31] NesTa13 do you not agree with me at least, on the above, munk?
[03:32] munk we are just so many ppl
[03:32] munk who have experienced the bad sides of elit
[03:32] NesTa13 i mean think about it, making a deal with someone, or anyone in fact, entails being vulnerable to them, and trusting them, just because its elit this time doesnt mean it cant be us next time, or you, or flogger
[03:32] NesTa13 are we going to take this and then be all enemies and kill everyone next age?
[03:33] munk shrug - the right wy is somewhere in between what group thinks and what elit thinks is fair
[03:33] NesTa13 oh and #3, it also reduces the animosity among the top, elit himself promised to raze oow those who killed his provinces this gb next age, but now its probably made him more angry. do we really want to play a game next age where 3 weeks/4 weeks in, everyone stops and comes and gb elit again for hitting into war?
[03:34] NesTa13 im not expecting elit to not hold grudges for next age, but surely it would have been far less, than if we pushed him towards 25 greens
[03:36] munk mmh
[03:36] munk anyway g2g

------------------------------------

[05:45] topsy you got flamed because everyone was discussing what to offer
[05:46] topsy and you were offering your own thing on the side for 30+ hours
[05:46] topsy people get very annoyed when they spend hours crafting a 4 part deal and then it's ignored
[05:46] NesTa13 no, i was trying to offer something before they sat down to discuss
[05:46] NesTa13 and i kept u in the loop
[05:46] NesTa13 u didnt stop me, even
[05:46] NesTa13 u wer elike, any updates?
[05:46] NesTa13 every 15 minutes
[05:46] NesTa13 remember?
[05:46] topsy yes
[05:46] NesTa13 and i gave u them, every 15 mnutes
[05:47] NesTa13 when they were discussing it, parth said, 25 greens, anyone objects?
[05:47] NesTa13 everyone said no, i said yes
[05:47] NesTa13 but i was conveniently ignored
[05:47] NesTa13 check what went out 24h ago, exactly this time i think
?
[05:48] NesTa13 elit said no to the razing banks
[05:48] topsy what did he offer in return to him
[05:48] NesTa13 he said same deal, just removing acre raze clause
[05:48] NesTa13 which would have become the deal i tried to offer
[05:49] NesTa13 i thought all was fine, minus the acre raze part
[05:49] topsy so again with the stay top 3 with top banks and most acrse to whore and promise to never raze acres?
?
[05:52] topsy like why do you think he'd want that deal while promosing he will never raze acres?
[05:52] topsy how do you stay out of that size if you don't raze and demand eoa cf
[05:53] NesTa13 the very key to this demand is, i believe, the deal extended to rage last age
[05:53] NesTa13 they never did raze anything
[05:53] NesTa13 so he demanded the same treatment
[05:53] NesTa13 if it was unfair, at least i moved the discussion forward
[05:53] NesTa13 we could have met somewhere, with like an extra clause of acre cap
[05:53] NesTa13 but the group decided its their 5 terms or nothing
[05:53] NesTa13 and that they threatened with 25 greens
[05:54] topsy except you and I are the monarch of the 2 largest kd's in the group. We have more sway as long as it's something reasonable and seems like it's being done by the group and not just 1 kd who wants out after they can't TM anymore
?
[05:57] topsy that's a low whore cap and he has legacy which he conviently didn't want to cf
[05:57] topsy then he should be fine agreeing to raze acres if he's within 20% yr 11 on
[05:57] NesTa13 that wasnt given to him
[05:57] NesTa13 the offer was immediate halving on their banks
[05:57] topsy that was what we discussed
?
[05:58] topsy if he isn't willing to raze nesta than none of the rest of his deal makes sense
[05:59] NesTa13 like i said, the 2 main points of him not razing were, 1) precedence that rage werent made to raze, 2) he had nothing left for his kd other than banks (in his opinion)
[05:59] topsy i know that was maxi's main issue and i agree with that.
[06:00] topsy rage didn't dealbreak
[06:00] NesTa13 i always think in diplo, if you want to diplo with someone, understand what he's thinking, and work from there
[06:00] NesTa13 from what i have been seeing 24h ago, you guys didnt want to consider that. you guys just say i want 1,2,3,4,5, accept it or 25 greens
[06:00] NesTa13 are you even kidding me?
[06:01] NesTa13 so if rage didnt dealbreak they deserve to earn 80k acres in 5 days?
[06:01] NesTa13 if thats the case we dont even need to fight every age
[06:01] NesTa13 it wont be who has the best ability to war/whore combined, but rather who has the best ability to arrange purposed farmouts
[06:01] NesTa13 which im sure you dont want the game to go that direction do u
[06:02] topsy that's what it has been 7/10 ages i've seen. That still doesn't mean it's a dealbreak
?
[06:03] NesTa13 it is better than a dealbreak
[06:03] NesTa13 true
?
[06:06] NesTa13 you cant compare 2 bad acts and say one was less worse
[06:06] topsy sure you can
[06:06] NesTa13 so would u say raping is still ok compared to murder?
[06:06] NesTa13 just because its less heinous?
[06:06] topsy running a red light isn't as bad as murder
?
[06:06] topsy i think those 2 are similar in degree
[06:07] topsy and your argument is you can't judge degree
[06:07] NesTa13 correct
?
[06:07] topsy because it's not as bad as murder
[06:07] topsy just like farming out a kd isn't as bad as dealbreaking
[06:07] NesTa13 so you're saying intentional farmouts are like running a redlight in utopia?
[06:08] NesTa13 which if so, brings me back to the point, do you want people running red lights in this game to win? ie. who can find farmouts better
[06:08] topsy im not here to make analagies, im here to say that you can judge whether 1 thing is worse than another thing
[06:08] topsy you think they are the same
[06:08] topsy and warrant the same deal
[06:08] NesTa13 so rage wasnt GB'ed for dealbreaking
[06:08] NesTa13 AMA was
[06:08] topsy rage didn't dealbreak
[06:08] NesTa13 and they lost 5 provinces and 2 almost gone
[06:08] NesTa13 ok
[06:08] NesTa13 i meant for intentional farming
[06:08] NesTa13 sorry, 6am, and cant type straight
?
[06:09] topsy and at that time he offered something that i don't think is consistant. We offered something he didn't like
[06:09] NesTa13 which i was well prepared to continue hitting if he didnt accept something reasonable
[06:09] NesTa13 but when the group decided to push forward with what i myself didnt think was reasonable
[06:09] NesTa13 i had to stop participating
?
[06:10] topsy obviously us 2 hold more weight than the others
[06:10] topsy we can diplo
?
[06:15] NesTa13 and like i told munk
(pastes logs with munk in convo)
[06:17] NesTa13 those banks wouldnt be half as big if u kept on pushing against us dropping them
[06:17] NesTa13 this case will close easily
[06:17] NesTa13 and we will self raze the banks after everything was concluded
[06:17] NesTa13 as per the deal, to end up at your acreage
[06:17] NesTa13 wasnt gonna do some lame BS, and raze my 3k orc instead
[06:18] NesTa13 lastly, and this
(more munk logs)
[06:18] topsy not sure which part you are trying to emphaisize?
[06:19] NesTa13 the last part
[06:19] NesTa13 did u trust us, or elit more?
[06:19] NesTa13 every part is crucial i think
[06:19] topsy you ofc, you didn't dealbreak us
[06:19] NesTa13 i cant really emphasise one
[06:19] NesTa13 but if i were to pick, then yea, the last part
[06:20] topsy i just find it very unfortunate that you did diplo wth elit but not with me/others
[06:20] topsy especially for the 40+ hours you did that
[06:20] NesTa13 i did not
[06:21] NesTa13 for the 20h which i stopped hitting
[06:21] NesTa13 i talked to ****, ***, ***, *** (names of non-AMA people from other kds)
[06:21] topsy without talking?
[06:21] topsy are any of them in ama?
[06:21] NesTa13 none
[06:21] topsy so you stopped for 20 horus and didn't talk to ama
[06:21] topsy and then started talking to them
[06:21] NesTa13 i started diplo-ing when it came a point where i was to continue committing razing, or not
[06:21] topsy for 10+ hours
[06:21] topsy and then us for 1 hour
[06:21] NesTa13 nope
[06:21] NesTa13 i talked to them, and you were privy to all at all times
[06:22] NesTa13 giving you an update every 15 minutes
[06:22] NesTa13 which made me very surprised
[06:22] NesTa13 he really wasnt hard to talk to when you talk reason with him, why couldnt u guys accomplish anything in 12h, but i could move the discussion forward so much in 1.5h
[06:22] NesTa13 which in the end, came to naught nevertheless, since i got flamed
[06:22] NesTa13 and was asked to stop talking to him
?
[06:24] topsy so you didn't talk to him for the 20+ hour before that when you had stopped hitting
[06:24] topsy and then based leaving on 1.5 hours inwhich he didn't want what the group wanted. You then braught what he wanted to the group which i was interested in but anri wasn't
[06:24] topsy and that is why you left?
[06:24] NesTa13 yes, was trying to figure whether there was truth AMA bank razes were CR coordinated
[06:24] NesTa13 which i was open about
[06:24] NesTa13 i told maxi
[06:25] NesTa13 maxi tried to convince me you guys werent guilty, and of course he'd say that
[06:25] NesTa13 so i needed to talk to more
[06:25] topsy i just don't get why noone comes and talks to me about these things
?
[06:26] NesTa13 at all points, i kept emphasising, dont act rash, i think im fine with ama keeping the banks and getting a deal where they cant crown. and you gave your approval you were prepared to give that area a thought
[06:26] NesTa13 that was the 1.5h
[06:26] NesTa13 and i said, if they FSU, its me and CR most at risk right? i mean why else would they keep a 19k bank?
[06:26] NesTa13 to crush my 17k for sure right?
[06:27] topsy yes
[06:27] topsy and i agreed
[06:27] NesTa13 and if im fine, why would people like anri be against it
?.
[06:27] topsy by time i came back it seemed like you had given up on the diplo with ama
[06:27] topsy not with us
[06:27] NesTa13 if you guys mean not offering elit anything outside razing his banks as not giving up on diplo, then yes, you havent given up
[06:28] topsy and yet you knew that i was open to one without razin the banks.
[06:29] NesTa13 then why did you disappear when talks were at such a crucial stage?
[06:29] NesTa13 and maxi was overwriting your approval
[06:29] topsy cause it was 4 pm and i hadn't eaten yet all day and was 3 hours late for my meeting?
[06:29] NesTa13 was like, at no point in time will we and should we ever consider a deal withou AMA banks under 10k
?
[06:30] NesTa13 and yea, it was 7am my time and i stayed to try and work things out. from 12am to 7am
[06:30] topsy nesta
[06:30] topsy i'd been up for 48 horus leading a war
[06:30] NesTa13 couldnt reach you, and maxi kept insisting, and so did drixx, and anri
[06:30] NesTa13 i can understand
[06:30] topsy after 72 hours of diplo/planning
[06:30] NesTa13 im not blaming you, topsy
[06:30] topsy maxi is always very passionate about a position until he changes it
[06:31] NesTa13 im just saying, couldnt maxi send you a text or something?
[06:31] topsy but in the end it's my call not his.
[06:31] NesTa13 im sure you guys have super munkbot who can auto whatsapp and sms
[06:31] NesTa13 munk seems super proud of that
[06:31] topsy indeed
[06:31] NesTa13 i kept emphasising you were open to that idea
[06:31] NesTa13 if maxi was in the least interested to move talks forward, least he could do was to sms/whatsapp you to double check
[06:31] topsy i was trying to convince everyone that if they were open to any cf they should be open to one where they keep banks
[06:31] NesTa13 but he kept overwriting it
[06:31] NesTa13 and you didnt "leave" the channel per se
[06:32] NesTa13 you left and idled, without saying anything
[06:32] NesTa13 and i was left all alone to defend that cf deal offer, which ama would have banks not razed

[13nesta13]

Thank you, though I would like to see them admit that it was them who turned down a CF for all parties - thus prolonging this farce and leaving their so called 'allies' vulnerable to being warred by AMA. I would also like to see the justification for turning the CF down and why cow razes are necessary.

I'm also slightly confused as to why they are in an alliance with KDs who they don't think can take a GB'd AMA 1 v1 in a war anyway - I mean talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight...

Enjoy reading, tapout.

[Anri]

They are getting more PKs because they cant meet any terms. They declared a participant of the GB and wants a WW.

Its really silly that a dealbreaking KD should be left capable of fighting for a WW, even the WW crown and prov crown is still put at stake and a dealbreaking KD should not have any remote chance to crown anything and they most certainly should not have demands on thier own after dealbreaking. They been given many different chances to have this end. I however beleive in very harsch punishment, as big punishment as possible so that maybe the upcoming ages people think both once and twice before dealbreaking. You lose ALL your rights when you dealbreak and lie and try to manipulate people to take side with dealbreakers. I dont feel sry for them, not the least. They have themselfs to blame for everything that happens to them. We have not told them to disband, we have told them to meet our terms, terms that was simple enough that no one had to get killed etc.

I find it very amusing that people take sides with dealbreakers that deserve not the slightest chance to win anything this age. They can come back clean next age and they have lots of ways to end this.

Thats my pov. Its also not a chance we leave a man behind to be kicked on by AMA. We are not Pyro <-- That apparently only was in it to gain and then walk out with deal.

[Korp]

So Anri, why didnt you gangbang Debauchery few ages back then?

[Anri]

Nesta, very classy to gather those loggs from private pms and channels and post them here. Id say much of that was confidential between you and them only.

[American Badass]

Nesta, you shouldn't air your dirty laundry when you are not so clean yourself mate ;)

[Proteus]

U mad bro?

Go reread my post and tell me if you think it would have been wise to get rage gbd, and then explain why you guys changed the plan.

Conveniently, I don't pretend to be good or live off past plays. Flogger, you, and elit all haven't crowned since I've been back. Are you all also living in the past?

Why would I be mad, you are the one who has failed to achieve objective zapzap and are making a lame gb under guise of fair play when community can see how much hypocrisy and inconsistency there is here. The people in charge of this 'fair play' movement are a far cry away from the reasonable leaders who retired a few ages ago, whose exodus led to arrival of such nubbery.

I actually crowned in Rage when you were back.
We (AMA) actually crowned last age. AMA not crowning even more has to do with ****play last few ages with #1 being decided by friendly farmout and other illicit chart shape. Surely you haven't been loving under the bed to see this. Obviously you being back has nothing to do with it considering you lost wars to both elit and flogger convincingly. So, no definitely not living in the past as were enjoying success in present and having a lot of fun.

I wonder how things will go when you can no longer get to pump if you cant even win wars after weeks of pumping...

[Korp]

This gangbang would be so much better if people just were honest with why they were doing it. Now they just look stupid when they come up with something retarded as "fair play" reasons, a majority of the kingdoms does it cause they dislike AMA and no other reason than that.

[Anri]

So Anri, why didnt you gangbang Debauchery few ages back then?

I beleive when Debauchery dealbroke Rage asked us for help but we were all ready in hostile going to war.
I advised anti-abs to help Rage because it was the right thing to do. To many saw the dealbreak as a chance to remove absalom from the competition, i was in no way part of that and i had helped Proteus if we could.

We cant use old ages as reference when trying to make sure that no one does dealbreak more this age and future ages. I would have to search back on loggs with Proteus, i think Proteus can confirm this otherwise for me. Not sure i want to spend 1h to search the old loggs to confirm this.

It will be impossible to always have all kds participate against dealbreaks, kds will be busy sometimes.

[Lupine]

They are getting more PKs because they cant meet any terms. They declared a participant of the GB and wants a WW.

Its really silly that a dealbreaking KD should be left capable of fighting for a WW, even the WW crown and prov crown is still put at stake and a dealbreaking KD should not have any remote chance to crown anything and they most certainly should not have demands on thier own after dealbreaking. They been given many different chances to have this end. I however beleive in very harsch punishment, as big punishment as possible so that maybe the upcoming ages people think both once and twice before dealbreaking. You lose ALL your rights when you dealbreak and lie and try to manipulate people to take side with dealbreakers. I dont feel sry for them, not the least. They have themselfs to blame for everything that happens to them. We have not told them to disband, we have told them to meet our terms, terms that was simple enough that no one had to get killed etc.

I find it very amusing that people take sides with dealbreakers that deserve not the slightest chance to win anything this age. They can come back clean next age and they have lots of ways to end this.

Thats my pov. Its also not a chance we leave a man behind to be kicked on by AMA. We are not Pyro <-- That apparently only was in it to gain and then walk out with deal.

So Pyro and the rest gained acres through this gb conflict against dealbreakers. Pyro backed down so they have to raze the acres the gained because its unfair. Okay..so when the whole pk Ama is over, the rest of the FPA will raze their unfairly acquired acres as Pyro were asked to do? Or they don't need to because they were in this quest of finishing off AMA together and its now legit acre?