Anything interesting happening?

[TheOne]

couldnt be bothered to read all the stuff in this thread, but I can guess roughly what's going on in this thread.

CR is probably being butthurt at Pyro for about 6-7 provinces being released of some troops, and is laughing at Pyro for still being behind in war?

First, do you really blame Pyro & several other kingdoms for reporting a possible mechanic abuse? It's simple, if you see there's a possible bug abuse/mechanic abuse/cheating/whatever ****, and you want to see if it's legit or not. You send a mail to support. That's what we did. Why be butthurt about it?

I find it really ?? that CR comes and flame Pyro for this? It's like the whole of CR puts the blame of them being actioned on us, that's really wtf? Grow up. Every single logs out there by a CR person blames Pyros for this. I dont care if we win or lose this war, but we are fighting against people who jumps the QQ bandwagon and blames someone else when they got punished for a mechanic abuse. It is the devs that decided to act on the mechanic abuse.

Second, whatever was it that was released, it was on about 6-7 provinces in total.. 5 of which that we had already chained on the first unique.. and they were released towards the middle-late of our 2nd unique and has we couldnt do much about it. The other 2 provinces were healthy, but once again with war hero training times and being released towards middle-late of our 2nd unique, there's already nothing much we can do about it.

There was +1.5mil tb on both provinces that feed out, making it about +3mil tb. In addition, there's still intra-kd stealing+the advantage from already being fed and using it on another kingdom from ~34hrs. And with TOG, it is soldiers that are scarce early age, not TOG.

The troops were being released as I mentioned halfway through our 2nd unique in war, and I estimated about ~25k worth of networth being released. That's about 6+k troops (assuming 4gc/spec). This is equivalent to about 3mil tb. Again, I havent read this thread (was told to post on it when I wake up), but I am pretty sure the loss is being exaggerated.

Anyway, it's been a good war thus far.


-------------------

Anyway, Pyros location got leaked early this age and we were WTF when CR blatantly knew it was in the war forums. IRC ABSNet has been a good place for us the past 1age+, but we will be moving out of this server shortly after the war is over(prolly some time to come). I have been told that the person who is admin of IRC ABSNet is currently in CR, and has been caught for spying on logs ages ago. I have also checked that admins are able to see logs in private channels on IRC.

Thanks (to Stinger and ABSNet admin/hosts) for hosting us the past 1age+.

It seems strange that CR went to warspoil like 2-3hits at oop, but after that left all troops home and wave Pyro 6hours later when islands open up. If you intend to use provinces to feed, why do this?

They knew the defenses that we were left at home and knew it was optimal to wait and wave us. Maximouse of CR claims that he knew all his threats 24hours of islands opening from oop, and he knew the personalities+racial setup for all the 25 man kingdoms near him. He also mentioned that he knew all these in freeze mode. I wonder, the charts are not up in freeze mode, how else would you know the setup of each kingdom.

CR knew we went with whoring strat at oop and were on low rtpa. They had already adjusted their rtpa and building strat straight from the get go.

Again, it will be difficult to prove any of the above, but I will choose to believe what several people have told me on IRC about ABSNet itself.



-----

Also, it's so strange that at freeze mode, every single province of my kingdom received the following message. It was to all provinces, and not just (M) or (S). Perhaps, this person was a multi from some kingdom trying to find out setup/personalities.

Game Date Pre Age
Real Date Fri, 21 Mar at 02:16 GMT+00:00
Sender Banana the Sorcerer of XX (X:XX)
Recipient Knight Dr Cancer the Sorcerer of XX (X:XX)
Subject Hi
Hi, any slot for me?

-cJ

[Godly]

lol

[Sheister]

ummm. Life imprisonment is meant to be a deterrent to murder. Does that mean because there is life imprisonment that murder is balanced?

OK, OK, that example is a bit ridiculous. But then, so is your argument.

WTF are you trying to argue here? Because there was a hard coded punishment to deter abuse so that the admin would not have to monitor as much, it is unfair that when the deterrent fails that he has to step in and more brutally enforce the spirit of the game?

Your argument is, that if you decide the deterrent is sufficiently outweighed in your own calculus that you are willing to accept the deterrence conditions (e.g. the deterrent is ineffective) that therefore, your action is actually, in reality, sanction and a balanced action that is and was meant to be a part of the game.

So, if I somehow use one of my kingdom's provinces to hack the game for the benefit of my kingdom, knowing that account deletion and an IP ban are appropriate sanctions but I determine the gain is wroth the price, it is over the top if the admins take further actions against the KD since the threat of deletion and IP ban did not work.

You made a move that you thought was close enough to the line to get away with even though you knew it stank. You are upset that you were wrong, but you admit you took a calculated risk.

You took a calculated risk..... and lost.

move on, nothing more to see here.

[TheOne]

lol

So you are still butthurt and blames Pyro for you guys being actioned? instead of looking at yourselves and knowing there was a possibility of being actioned and still did it?

GROW UP

It is so hilarious almost every single CR member blames Pyro for being actioned. I dont care if we win or lose this war, but what this incident shows that you guys are definitely not gracious winners (if you win), and a whole bunch of you looks for excuses and blames elsewhere instead of looking at yourself.

I dont care if you are the 'most decorated' player of all time and I am a lowly noob. I dont give a ****. Nesta & Me built this kingdom with a core that is much weaker than the rest (but all 25 of us take pride in working together). So laugh all you want about us being noobs, again. you are nothing.

[Godly]

The deterrent is put into place to make the action not profitable. There wasn't any cheating or serious violation here. It was a strategy that they deemed to be too good to let happy, so they balanced it by making it not profitable. That should be the end of the story. Going into someone's account and removing stuff is not ok.

[Godly]

No I'm laughing at this:

Also, it's so strange that at freeze mode, every single province of my kingdom received the following message. It was to all provinces, and not just (M) or (S). Perhaps, this person was a multi from some kingdom trying to find out setup/personalities.

Game Date Pre Age
Real Date Fri, 21 Mar at 02:16 GMT+00:00
Sender Banana the Sorcerer of XX (X:XX)
Recipient Knight Dr Cancer the Sorcerer of XX (X:XX)
Subject Hi
Hi, any slot for me?

[Sheister]

so he should have just deleted the aided provinces and banned the aider provinces.......

Please take note Bishop, it is the invasion of "privacy" that is at issue. Had you "mehuled" them, this would probably be less drama ridden.

[Godly]

i dont care if you are the 'most decorated' player of all time and i am a lowly noob. I dont give a ****. Nesta & me built this kingdom with a core that is much weaker than the rest (but all 25 of us take pride in working together). So laugh all you want about us being noobs, again. You are nothing.

lol

[TheOne]

Current list of punishment for using a tactic that is not a bug abuse and therefore not cheating:
- The entire tactic foiled by a coding change not mentioned in the changelist: our provs arent in functioning state for 5 real days (24 hrs in initial protection + 24 hrs waiting since aid is now a hostile action + 72 hrs for protection on new provs). This should be punishment enough.
- All leaders who reset suspended for 72 hrs
- More military released than what was aided (military paid for with real cash).
- Still negative TB on the provs that got aided
- Total of 7 provs taken out of a war for a measly 8k soldiers
- Loss of 2 reset credits purchased with real money that weren't used how we wanted them to be used. (This should be refunded).

I can only speak for CR. We picked 2 provs to aid 1k soldiers to each of our non-tacts to get them to be as pumped as the non-tacts since they dont get the +800 soldier bonus. Nothing major. The devs already coded in something to make this a really bad strategy (takes 24 hrs to reset a prov after aiding and if you reset it's 72 hr protection) so we were already suffering 23 provs vs 25 for 5 real life days.

In addition to this, Bishop, in a war, released all defense on 5 key provs that were pretty much only single tappable and could 4x in return and were destroying them. He also suspended the 2 provs so they cant even train the resources and will be put into war after they come out with no owner, tons of cash, soldiers and no military. He's basically making 7 of our provs into farms -- doing everything in his power to help Pyro win when they already had a huge adv of the code change that wasn't relayed to us in the round changes post.

This entire situation is absurd. If we win this war, Pyro are completely bad at this game.

None of the aiding was the reason why we were winning big. Pyro chose to run no thieves and 4k def on all their provs. The aiding actually hurt us significantly since we didnt even need the extra military. More provs would have done more damage.

Maybe you should lie better

These 2 sots were taken 11hours after OOP, there were waiting to be resetted

he peggers in tow(x:xx) - SOT - Age: 1hrs 8min 34sec - Thieves Sent/Accuracy: 100% - Submitter: Noir

The Province of the peggers in tow (x:xx)
[ StingerNET Formatter v1.2 ]
Server: World of Legends (Age 61)
Utopian Date: February 11, YR0
RL Date: March 23, 2014 (04:04:55 GMT)
Origin: Unformatted (1st hand)
Ruler Name: The Conniving the one who knocks Swordsmen 0 Land 410 Archers 1 Peasants 5
Personality & Race: The Tactician, Human
Land: 410 Acres
Money: 182,469gc
Food: 28,424 bushels
Runes: 417 runes
Population: 5,050 citizens (12.32 per Acre)
Peasants: 5,049 (95% Building Efficiency)
Trade Balance: 1,479,039gc
Accuracy: 100%
Military Eff. with Stance: 100% off. / 100% def.
Soldiers: 0 (0% estimated draft rate)
Swordsmen: 0 (0 offense)
Archers: 1 (4 defense)
Knights: 0 (0 offense / 0 defense )
War-Horses: 0 (up to 0 additional offense)
Prisoners: 0
Total Modified Offense: 0 (0 per Acre)
Total Modified Defense: 4 (0.01 per Acre)
Estimated Thieves Number: 0 (0 per Acre)
Estimated Wizards Number: 0 (0 per Acre)
** Current Effects: **
- None
** Networth Table: **
Total Networth: 11,577gc (28.24 per Acre)

And out of the beer hall(x:xx) - SOT - Age: 1hrs 6min 14sec - Thieves Sent/Accuracy: 100% - Submitter: Noir

The Province of And out of the beer hall (x:xx)
[ StingerNET Formatter v1.2 ]
Server: World of Legends (Age 61)
Utopian Date: February 11, YR0
RL Date: March 23, 2014 (04:07:15 GMT)
Origin: Unformatted (1st hand)
Ruler Name: The Conniving PEGGGGYYYYYY Swordsmen 0 Land 410 Archers 0 Peasants 5
Personality & Race: The Tactician, Human
Land: 410 Acres
Money: 164,137gc
Food: 51,460 bushels
Runes: 216 runes
Population: 5,061 citizens (12.34 per Acre)
Peasants: 5,010 (95% Building Efficiency)
Trade Balance: 1,468,826gc
Accuracy: 100%
Military Eff. with Stance: 100% off. / 100% def.
Soldiers: 51 (1% estimated draft rate)
Swordsmen: 0 (0 offense)
Archers: 0 (0 defense)
Knights: 0 (0 offense / 0 defense )
War-Horses: 0 (up to 0 additional offense)
Prisoners: 0
Total Modified Offense: 51 (0.12 per Acre)
Total Modified Defense: 51 (0.12 per Acre)
Estimated Thieves Number: 0 (0 per Acre)
Estimated Wizards Number: 0 (0 per Acre)
** Current Effects: **
- None
** Networth Table: **
Total Networth: 13,183gc (32.15 per Acre)


and the provinces that you got released troops off, 5/7 were already chained from the top range all the way to the bottom 5 provinces of your kingdom.

If we knew this was allowed (but as most can see, we didnt do it), we would have gladly paid to do this. Anyone knows that you can go 23 v 25 with this strat and still win.

Reasons why we still declared on you guys? even if we were to lose, we will still break even in acres and slow you down. of course, no1 goes into the war thinking they would lose. also, you would have asked for another wave before any CF. Again, read the earlier post on how suspicious it is to get waved 6hours after oop from 2 isles away.

[munk]

Anyway, Pyros location got leaked early this age and we were WTF when CR blatantly knew it was in the war forums. IRC ABSNet has been a good place for us the past 1age+, but we will be moving out of this server shortly after the war is over(prolly some time to come). I have been told that the person who is admin of IRC ABSNet is currently in CR, and has been caught for spying on logs ages ago. I have also checked that admins are able to see logs in private channels on IRC.

Thanks (to Stinger and ABSNet admin/hosts) for hosting us the past 1age+.

It's hawks server, and if you don't like it, noone is forcing you to use it?

The first posts on the war forum was you guys saying "hi CR/HAVOC" and a bunch of silspeak. It was easy to guess that someone bad enough to be playing like you were and with a coherent setup/theme wasn't going to be ama/bb (they're not bad) but could be you. With all the silspeak etc it became obv to be you. Your setup also kinda looked unpolished.. so yeah...

You should be less paranoid and you shouldn't accuse ppl of stuff when you have no proof.

You really showed your real side these last weeks -- to imagine I used to speak highly of you to other leaders.. sheesh.

[Zauper]

CJ:
It was 12 provs, not 6-7. (two UD and all WH were actioned)

At least get your facts straight.

As far as I know, there has never been evidence of folks being spied on on absnet. On utonet, on the other hand, there was. Which is what caused abs to spin off absnet.

[Olpah]

I will be the first to play Godly's new game!!

!IsItActionable if instead of aiding the soldiers and gc OOP, we just intra steal it?

[StratOcastle]

I'm believing cJ. - CR, you guys lol. The George Costanza Of Utopia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPf98i8A0g

[Palem]

We are being punished for respawning. Had we sent all the aid out and not respawned, there'd be no action.

"Its not a rule violation to respawn." -Bishop

It's this naive stupidity that Bishop won't talk with you. You won't even acknowledge the thing you did wrong and you're grasping at straws and quoting completely unrelated stuff to try to justify your shady behavior.

I think the whole "cheater cheater" stuff is quite a bit overblown in this thread. CR acted within what were the defined rules at the time. They were punished ex post facto, which I disagree with but I'm not the one who decides the rules nor am I the one who decides whether they should be enforced ex post facto or not. Last age they let a much larger abuse go without fixing it or actioning it at all, so I find it a little odd that 2 provs aiding for a slight military advantage for several other provs was met with such a harsh response, especially given that rationally it is much more abusive to do what was being discussed in the thread last age where Bishop said resetting was not abuse.

I agree that the whole "cheater" thing is getting blown out of proportion, however CR has done this kind of garbage two ages in a row now. Habitual bull**** needs to be met with fire.

Lurking, it's not free. It comes at a cost.

The game has always taken a firm stance that it's not pay-to-win and the mechanics are designed to reflect that. At what point when you were buying the resets didn't you think "Hmm, it seems we're paying to win. Perhaps something isn't quite right..."

The rest of you fools are just bandwagoning like you know anything about utopia and/or are biased. Anyone with a brain can understand that 5 days delay for starting a prov is sufficient deterrent for resetting in protection. There isn't any additional action required. They made the change full well knowing that whoever tried would be monumentally screwed. Now they want to kick dirt on us while we're down.

There's two massive issues with this.
1. Apparently it's not that good of a deterrent if you guys went ahead and did it. Yes, you thought it was only going to be 4 days, but that's irrelevant at this point. The deterrence is there SO YOU WILL NOT TRY AND DO THIS BULL****. If people are just doing it anyway, then further action is needed. Don't abuse the reset button.

2. You said that before Bishop's actioning, war was 100% win. How is coasting into an insta-win and a MASSIVE lead against the entire rest of the server appropriate action for abusing game mechanics?

[v3nusxgodz]

We were aided 1k soldiers but we had all our defense and thieves released on some chained provinces , the chained provinces had 6-8k defense with tpa, but woke up to land defense and quad taps by pyro. Sounds like the moderator is placing handicap on purpose. He could have waited to release the numbers fairly, but no *screw you guys because I have the power*. Dosent stop us though , we know we are killing this with 18 functionable provinces. One can only wonder what would happen if it was on 25 v 25. If we did not aid , we gain two more Undeads , which has the potential to snowball in oop wars especially against a kd with no tpa and measly 4k defense. Go Cr!!