A Resolution: On Ethics and Top Play

[Elldallan]

"Abs threatened AMA with gb if they accepted a farmout from PewPew, so if they had it would have been the exact same situation as this, so yes they did."

There is a difference between two kingdoms agreeing one of them farmout to the other and the current situation. You are smart enough to understand this.

From what I heard AMA wasn't involved in it at all, PewPew threatened to farm out to AMA so Abs told AMA if they farm Pew/let Pew farm there would be gb, there was never any implied agreement from the sources I've heard. But yes an agreed farmout would obviously be different, on the other hand it is practically impossible to know wether it was agreed on or if the farmout merely decided to stop fighting in the war.

"Abs also threatened to Gb Dreams unless they kicked about half the kingdom and did in fact proceed to gb Dreams for refusing, so yes they've threatened to gb kingdoms unless they keeled over and died."

Those people declared an alliance war on Absalom , then after a few weeks, they deleted and quit the game. No surrender, no deal was worked out, you really think they would be allowed to form a new kingdom and come back without consequences?

Yes I never said it might not have been warranted, I just stated that yes Abs has been known for demanding that kd's keel over and die or face gb, personally I think that forcefully removing RBL's acres if they had refused to take themselves out of the fight would have been warranted.

What would you have preferred happen anri ??

Since farming out is a Simians specialty I'm sure that Anri is very upset that people took a stance against it since that implies that Simians may be prevented from being Simians in future ages, should they ever stop ghettobashing and try for the charts again that is.

[Anri]

He's just trolling don't mind him :).

I am not trolling at all

[Crunch]

What would you have preferred happen anri ??

Server war is what should have happened... Total initialization of all offenders just like we did when we crushed Echo.

[Anri]

What would you have preferred happen anri ??

How about a little something called hostile and war?
Instead of BS diplomatics for hours and hours ending up in endless conversations everywhere.

Here is what needs to be done, since you are a bunch of clowns imo.

AMA/BB/Jerks = GB pewpew to hell.
Rage joins the GB vs pewpew to cancel out Rage having free pump/growth meanwhile the rest GB pewpew.

After this challenge each other like men instead of run and make diplomatics around everything.

[Persain]

Feel free to edit the list. Also 95% of our critics are not outsiders but the other side in the argument.

That wont be horribly productive for the forums and it'll just put the focus on nitpicking each item. The majority of your "critics" may be the other side of the argument but remember your allies will rarely criticize you to your face and there arent alot of treuly neutral people that post in these forums. So if u want how it looks from below, with if anything a bias FOR your side (going into the past age i'd been treated better by anit-abs v abs), feel free to msg me on irc, PersainCAT, i'm always online even if afk.

So how so our actions inspire others to retaliate in poor form? There were never farm wars, double hostile, dealbreaks before us? How so you can justify any bad play with our actions, even if they are not related to a conflict? Like ED running away from Fratzia? Or Pewpew farming out to Rage, despite the fact we didn't do anything wrong to them this age? Or maybe you are trying to say that trashtalk on forums justifies such kind of play ingame? And that all kds that did these acts have no responsibility whatsoever for what they did? And before you say that they are bad as us or worse. I can not but share that i didn't see you condemn what pewpew did. Also please refer to how many deals did we break since we exist as a kd 4-5 ages ago? Make a list and express your opinion. Otherwise i don't understand your warning to others when they deal with us.

P.S. I have a question for you. How so we are dealbreakers and dishonest. And still we are the ones that kept their allies and Pewpew and others lost their?

P.P.S. Oh yeah, we did lame play. We forced Rage to keep their farmed land from Pewpew. That is so much worse than hitting into real war, farming out to shape the charts, fwing and so on.

With reguards to specifically pewpew. If anything i'd be more on your side. The last time we went big we got hit by them in our war. It cost us BOTH our cows and any shot at fighting rage/sanc and ultimately HoH that age. So i feel for the geting **** played. However, our response was to say fine, your gonna do that we'll just beat u down again. We'll use standard play to war you as we have no cf and not let u pass us in land again that age. We didnt get angry we didnt hit them in a future war. Sure we cried that their play was unethical, sure we admitted that why they hit us was on the verge of reasonable but we didnt do "anything" back. And that style of play cost us our age goal of waring abs, because post conflict we simply didnt have the banks to fight abs. Thing is though we even got an apology from PewPew post age about the way we got treated.

Compare that to last age, how did your relationship go with pewpew when they screwed you guys over by waring strippers all those times? I'm pretty sure you didn't get an im sorry from them, you got somone that was bitter even an age later, bitter enough to cause rage to go from 100k->200k acres in a war. Even lets say they didnt do that to spite you, they just chose to farm out to land drop and war other kds. The response for that is to what gang up and say...eh u got free acres, u shouldn't have u, either land-drop, get gb'ed, or agree to not win? Thats not going with the flow, and accepting what happens thats punishing someone.

I mean i can see why BB/jerks might want something like this. Because if i were rage i'd want to fight AMA right now too, best shot of geting a war and winning. And that war would/could screw over jerks/bb...all because ama made pewpew bitter last age. Thing is if i were bb/jerks i'd rather lose the age than do this type of deal. I'd also be angry that AMA cost me a chance to crown due to their relationship with pewpew, and i'd blame pewpew for costing me the age. However, prior to this age with the way pewpew farmed out last age i'd of built into my cf the ability to gain off ama should pewpew do this type of thing. Maybe something like if pewpew farms out to someone AMA cant war that target? Thats y i'd warn people about a cf deal with AMA, u have an enemy a cf should acknowledge that.

[Anri]

you want some support, you call for the support. When Simians pulled **** we got hurt badly with PKs and well thousands of hits. I dont see what has changed. Man up ffs

[KuhaN]

The game needs to be changed in such a way that there would be alliance wars, and diplomacy would be too hectic to prevent alliance wars.

Get rid of WW charts and WWs, and get rid of banking (make everyone play for land/nw). Then we have more big kingdoms, and more people getting pissed at eachother.

Flogger's median idea for exploring could help get rid of unbreakables, then we just need to rid of the WW/Honor charts.

[PhoenixScorpion]

People accused abs of power playing and dictating game play.They are gone but same thing is happening.Ironic eh :)

+1. Pot meets kettel, something I kind of expect from Elit (he plays like old Absalom), not flogger (someone who throughout his entire history has been against such things supposedly).

mike, MegasX and rest who say we did power play Rage. This deal was suggested from rage and none from us was feeling its fair to accept it but we decide to make compromise and accept it.
Its sad how some people wanted action vs rage so they can use this for his personal interest.

Elit we made a deal because we wasnt even out of a Real war we entered and you guys was already spinning up your PR, GB, dealbreaking machine to try to farm us with your ****play OOW. Regardless what outcome was, doesnt change the fact in the complete BS, disrepectful, and bully-like manner in which you approached our KD. A new KD that has done nothing to any of your KD's. I like Elit that you like to constantly talk **** about how bad Rage did this or that to you, yet you recruited the person responsible for all of those decisions that you hate so much. This shows the utter nonsense that you use to win at any costs and make yourself look like the game's biggest hypocrite. I am sick of hearing you act like your being fair to RBL because you are not, get over yourself. The answer to ****play and people doing BS isnt more of the same. Get real.

Didn't your kingdom dealbreak sonata in its first age because it was farming BenM or BenQ's kingdom? Didn't that end up starting an alliance war 2 ages later?

Farming is bad, and people who say "ooooh look abs is gone and now the same thing is happening" abs wasn't always wrong (in fact more often was right compared to non-abs), if they were they wouldn't have lasted 50 ages.

There were 2 sets of 3 kds that pre-age CF'd, one side is 8/9 and one side is 4/8. Had havoc, ED and Rage been 1/2/3 does anyone think for a second they would let me farm 70k from pew pew without coming up with some sort of similar deal or else get **** played?

Actually yeah flogger. Remember last round when your same group of KD's (you, your allies, and those u eoacf'ed) was involved in same old GB, deal-breaking, farming ****? We didnt get involved because it is pointless and all of you basically show why you fail to crown and dominate in such a small landscape. Wow must be nice to live in a fantasy of your own creation. The truth is since Absalom stepped out of Utopia you guys have basically made everything that is considered to be lame-play the prevalent things done in Utopia. You are someone I thought I would never lose respect for, sadly that day has come. You have become what you hate the most, the circle is complete. You do realize how many time just recently Rage has lost a crown due to the exactly play you are referring to, and last time Absalom acted on someone it had nothing to do with that. So stop trying to talk for Absalom when your just trying to defend your n00blike BS.

This was some of the weakest **** i have ever seen in the top and all of the KDs included here is so lame that i dont even have words for it.

All i can say is that i am very glad we choose to stay out of t10 this age.

This kind of thing sickens me, i feel like puking. Not sure who is worst, Rage for bending over and playing the honorable card or the other side.

I think the most fitting word i can find for this is P A T H E T I C

+1. Sets a very bad precedent. Dont worry though, those that are setting it wont like it when some of us reorganize with that as the case. You know what happens when we organize Anri ;)

Be careful what you wish for you might just get it. Some have forgotten they arent the only ones who used to dominate in this game and feel like they are untouchable, unstoppable, or special. None of which is true. A storm is coming, as some have said before, get out your raincoats and boots.

Server war is what should have happened... Total initialization of all offenders just like we did when we crushed Echo.

That was KLA and ECHO. They know what will happen if we actually get serious. We have yet to lose when organized and pissed. I would be very worried ;)

How about a little something called hostile and war?
Instead of BS diplomatics for hours and hours ending up in endless conversations everywhere.

Here is what needs to be done, since you are a bunch of clowns imo.

AMA/BB/Jerks = GB pewpew to hell.
Rage joins the GB vs pewpew to cancel out Rage having free pump/growth meanwhile the rest GB pewpew.

After this challenge each other like men instead of run and make diplomatics around everything.

That is exactly what I suggested to both Elit and flogger. Sadly they was more interested in ****playing us and actioning us than actually being concerned about the real problem. I wonder why that is? Even now they act like what they did to RBL was right when RBL did not arrange nor fight a FW. Flogger/Elit had no right to act on RBL when they have yet to organize anything formal against Pew Pew. This would be if they was 100% right and RBL was 100% wrong, same with them dealbreaking and lame playing. You dont excuse being lame by saying someone else is being lame. Dafuq.

[Nitram]

Wow. AMA should been GBed or forced to landdrop after warring malevolence last age.

[EvulTroll]

+1. Pot meets kettel, something I kind of expect from Elit (he plays like old Absalom), not flogger (someone who throughout his entire history has been against such things supposedly).



Elit we made a deal because we wasnt even out of a Real war we entered and you guys was already spinning up your PR, GB, dealbreaking machine to try to farm us with your ****play OOW. Regardless what outcome was, doesnt change the fact in the complete BS, disrepectful, and bully-like manner in which you approached our KD. A new KD that has done nothing to any of your KD's. I like Elit that you like to constantly talk **** about how bad Rage did this or that to you, yet you recruited the person responsible for all of those decisions that you hate so much. This shows the utter nonsense that you use to win at any costs and make yourself look like the game's biggest hypocrite. I am sick of hearing you act like your being fair to RBL because you are not, get over yourself. The answer to ****play and people doing BS isnt more of the same. Get real.




ctually yeah flogger. Remember last round when your same group of KD's (you, your allies, and those u eoacf'ed) was involved in same old GB, deal-breaking, farming ****? We didnt get involved because it is pointless and all of you basically show why you fail to crown and dominate in such a small landscape. Wow must be nice to live in a fantasy of your own creation. The truth is since Absalom stepped out of Utopia you guys have basically made everything that is considered to be lame-play the prevalent things done in Utopia. You are someone I thought I would never lose respect for, sadly that day has come. You have become what you hate the most, the circle is complete. You do realize how many time just recently Rage has lost a crown due to the exactly play you are referring to, and last time Absalom acted on someone it had nothing to do with that. So stop trying to talk for Absalom when your just trying to defend your n00blike BS.



+1. Sets a very bad precedent. Dont worry though, those that are setting it wont like it when some of us reorganize with that as the case. You know what happens when we organize Anri ;)

Be careful what you wish for you might just get it. Some have forgotten they arent the only ones who used to dominate in this game and feel like they are untouchable, unstoppable, or special. None of which is true. A storm is coming, as some have said before, get out your raincoats and boots.



That was KLA and ECHO. They know what will happen if we actually get serious. We have yet to lose when organized and pissed. I would be very worried ;)



That is exactly what I suggested to both Elit and flogger. Sadly they was more interested in ****playing us and actioning us than actually being concerned about the real problem. I wonder why that is? Even now they act like what they did to RBL was right when RBL did not arrange nor fight a FW. Flogger/Elit had no right to act on RBL when they have yet to organize anything formal against Pew Pew. This would be if they was 100% right and RBL was 100% wrong, same with them dealbreaking and lame playing. You dont excuse being lame by saying someone else is being lame. Dafuq.

I dont often agree alot with PS, but man you are spot on and if ama and there ****playing freinds bb/ej think rage is alone in the growing hate they be wrong.

[guard14n]

EvulTroll and PS - take ur pills now! U forgot again! I know its hard to remember .... well anything but take them ... come on stop looking at the damn screen and take your bloody pills! And someone please give Anri a banana ... there is an unhappy monkey here throwing its poo all over the place. TAKE YOUR DAMN PILLS! Jeeez

guard14n passes a banana to Anri. Good monkey.

[flogger]

You do know that farming intentionally was done in previous ages and abs didnt threaten kds because they farmed right? My kd sanc was denied crown when simians triple noticed.But we didnt throw flamefeast because of it.We just let it go.So what makes u think currently the kds which were formerly abs would force deal on someone? But anyways i was just saying whichever alliance is stronger will dictate flow of action.I am not against it.

You're right on the latter part, and the general hope is that the alliance that's stronger is relatively reasonable. For the most part abs was fairly reasonable but there were ofc a few instances where others didn't think so.

There was plenty of flamefest the age simians farmed out by plenty, dunno if it was from sanc or not, but that's a little different circumstance in the fact that one of you 3 were definitely going to win and the farmout only affected which one of you did. It had a lasting effect on the actual crown winner because abs never made an agreement to fight eachother in such spots, which was why I left abs to begin with. The age after I left abs, for example, ZZ was in our group and we were 1/2 and fought for the crown the last week after the non-abs kds had won.

But in sanctuary's case, its a little hard for you to flamefest simians for farming out to one of your allies after they farmed out to your ally because you hit in their war. If I recall that age simians was likely going to lose to any of the three of you, all the abs kds had the time (1 tick when notice expired) to initiate on them in fort, none did, simians initiated on HoH, war was declared and sanctuary then hit into them after war was declared. Fairly hard for Sanctuary to flamefest that since they both had the opportunity to get the fight themselves by hitting into fort and to not discourage simians by not waving into their war giving them no chance.

[flogger]

I've never been a member of Abs, nor have I been allied with Abs in the past.
While the case can be made that all of these things have occurred in the past, it has never been the case that an alliance, Absalom for example, dictates the terms of NAPs between other kingdoms or decided what was or was not a valid hostile. Nor do I recall Absalom threatening to GB a kingdom they have CFs with unless they roll over and die.

lol are you serious? All of those things happened all of the time. We would talk, you know.

[flogger]

There is a difference between two kingdoms agreeing one of them farmout to the other and the current situation. You are smart enough to understand this.

There can't be though. Intent can't be the determining factor since you can never prove it. I can easily 100% make a farm war that no one could ever prove much more convincing than one kingdom giving all their land (pew) and one kingdom getting like 5 provinces of theirs severely learned, which is about all the damage rage took here. Its entirely possible that a member of rage knew the farmout would occur when the other 24 players did not. You cannot base it on whether it was agreed upon.

There's only one person, for a more recent example, who knows what happened between havoc and BB last age, and I'm not one of them. So since I don't know, under that logic, I should have just declared opposed to ceasefiring (which every single person in my kingdom wanted me to do). It's the action that matters, not the intent.

Not that this is intended to be a dig on rage, but razing the acres was the right thing to do, and it just takes a strong enough leader to do something that would be so wildly unpopular in their own kingdom like me ceasefiring havoc last age, and I realize there are very few kingdoms/leaders left who have that ability without disbanding their own kingdom. Kingdoms that work with large councils cannot.

So if I'm drixx and I know if I raze the acres half my kd will revolt, I would not do it either.

[skoyl12]

Game mechanics are responsible for **** play. Usually for a game to be good there is a balanced risk/reward factor. Now one kd that has advantage (low risk) can completely farm another (big reward).
I'm not going to bother writing an analysis on the subject but game should be balanced so same size provinces are unbreakable oow. Also bringing back land based gains (not nw) will establish a hierarchy. Bigger kd should have an advantage so there is no anarchy like now.