Age 66 potental changes

[Elldallan]

Afraid of few little Angry Birds hitting you, are we? Overpop is very possible, same as keeping avian down don't need to PK him. Beside there are other ways to disable prov, like opping and avian in not hard to op.

Opping still have no really efficient way to kill elites that are out, and elites out don't defect, and assuming you don't get chained home everything else will defect before your elites are back or you can release it and send to a friendly, so ops can largely be ignored, at least on a province scale level and no, with no bushing it's very hard to actually overpop a prov enough that it won't still have a ton of elites because they'll have significant incoming acres for their size incoming so it won't be enough to force them to release much and it won't be enough to keep them home for a few hc's so you can chain them further with elites home and no incoming acres.

It can be a beast with somebody active enough to never ever have armies home, but it's crap if you sit home occasionally because you'll get chained ultra hard(for good reason). In short Avian lends itself only to a certain player/playstyle that I don't think we should encourage more than neccessary, game needs to move into a more casual direction, not one that premiers insane activity at arbitrary times.

Give me back proper razes in war and I have a proper counter, but as it is the game already offers too few ways to kill off huge piles of elites, it shouldn't be made any harder.

[nameisis]

Avian is and was always for active plp. So it's a good change. It was never for plp who sit at home and attack once every 16 hours. There are turtle races for that.

Razes are fine as they are in war. I see no reason to change

Plus if you keep that avian overpop all the time he has army out, sooner or later it will be easy to PK him with masses.

[Elldallan]

Avian is and was always for active plp. So it's a good change. It was never for plp who sit at home and attack once every 16 hours. There are turtle races for that.

Obviously, but I don't think we should boil em down to be even more of a one trick pony, it'd be better to give them a more universal boost, not something that makes them even more unforgiving activity wise.

Razes are fine as they are in war. I see no reason to change

No ambush immunity anywhere is fine as they are, I see no reason to change.

Plus if you keep that avian overpop all the time he has army out, sooner or later it will be easy to PK him with masses.

PK is essentially impossible with a proper kingdom at your back, which just reiterates my points from my last post. If they get ambush immunity they should have a +50-100% offensive losses penalty(combined with the shorter attacktimes that really racks up over time), they used to have that when they had ambush immunity last time, they'd need it again. But then they'd need another boost. Ambush immunity is just too hard to balance properly, it should stay dead and buried.

[Andurilas]

Maybe avian should have gains nerf and human should get its science cost nerf and something else.

[Snuppe]

Maybe avian should have gains nerf and human should keep its science cost nerf .

pretty good idea andurilas.

and the idea to put 100% military losses on a race that's dependant on rapid attacking, they self burn them out Before standard min time in a war. killer

I Think ambush immunity sounds fun and great to compensate for only having mid range max mopa compared to orcs, undeads, humans, dwarves. last age i was dwarf hybrid and due to BE still pushed 105-115max mopawith 40+ mdpa all out.
this age I'm human, atm 113max mopa in war, with 45 mdpa all out, 3tpa raw and 2wpa raw. there's orcs and UD's in the kd on 120-130max mopa, 40+ mdpa all out. our avian has maby 90 max mopa and 40+ max mdpa all out.
weaker leets, no ome bonus no horses.

it's good, all races requires different playstyles and has their purpose. more fun if there's a healther mix of races in a kd an not just a orc ud core with maby dwarf/human/elf support and faery/halfler t/m base.
full avain kd won't work, can't thouch the UB casters. will burn themselves our in min time if kept under Control with ops and unable to retrain.
but a few in a kd for that mid size fast chain to phase out enemies, will be good. orcs bonus gains and extra cashualties will be great to start chains, and give them finishing blows.

[Taraxacum]

Right. I had a list.. Bit too late but I'll post it anyway. Mostly due to the lack of changes to game mechanics.

• Only one WW bonus, both acres and land. Losing kd gets other bonuses (creds and stuff) but no honor or land bonus.
• Finetune land WW bonus. More land for smallest provs, less for the biggest.
• Slightly wider optimal op range.
• Cheaper than 5x exploring first 12-24hrs of EOWCF (low resources). Exploring credits at warwin/warloss?
• Hostile points / Honor loss for opping into EOWCF
• Anything that makes land more valuable. Landdropping ruins land/nw charts, while warring/honor kds drop to stay in buisness. Capping WW score/honor to total land, in some way?

[nameisis]

PK is essentially impossible with a proper kingdom at your back, which just reiterates my points from my last post. If they get ambush immunity they should have a +50-100% offensive losses penalty(combined with the shorter attacktimes that really racks up over time), they used to have that when they had ambush immunity last time, they'd need it again. But then they'd need another boost. Ambush immunity is just too hard to balance properly, it should stay dead and buried.

PK is possible and i doesn't really matter on kd, but on yourself being active at ticks.

[nameisis]

Maybe avian should have gains nerf and human should get its science cost nerf and something else.

Human gets big OME boost so it should get big nerf. And sci cost nerf is just a nuisance in most cases not a big con.

OME vs gains is nice idea. Yo have huge offense but get less gains.

[nameisis]

Right. I had a list.. Bit too late but I'll post it anyway. Mostly due to the lack of changes to game mechanics.

• Only one WW bonus, both acres and land. Losing kd gets other bonuses (creds and stuff) but no honor or land bonus.
• Finetune land WW bonus. More land for smallest provs, less for the biggest.
• Slightly wider optimal op range.
• Cheaper than 5x exploring first 12-24hrs of EOWCF (low resources). Exploring credits at warwin/warloss?
• Hostile points / Honor loss for opping into EOWCF
• Anything that makes land more valuable. Landdropping ruins land/nw charts, while warring/honor kds drop to stay in buisness. Capping WW score/honor to total land, in some way?

Good idea would be to donate land after war from bigger provs to smaller. So there is less need for fort war EOWCF. And downsizing of overgrown attackers

[nameisis]

Maybe avian should have gains nerf and human should keep its science cost nerf .

pretty good idea andurilas.

and the idea to put 100% military losses on a race that's dependant on rapid attacking, they self burn them out Before standard min time in a war. killer

I Think ambush immunity sounds fun and great to compensate for only having mid range max mopa compared to orcs, undeads, humans, dwarves. last age i was dwarf hybrid and due to BE still pushed 105-115max mopawith 40+ mdpa all out.
this age I'm human, atm 113max mopa in war, with 45 mdpa all out, 3tpa raw and 2wpa raw. there's orcs and UD's in the kd on 120-130max mopa, 40+ mdpa all out. our avian has maby 90 max mopa and 40+ max mdpa all out.
weaker leets, no ome bonus no horses.

it's good, all races requires different playstyles and has their purpose. more fun if there's a healther mix of races in a kd an not just a orc ud core with maby dwarf/human/elf support and faery/halfler t/m base.
full avain kd won't work, can't thouch the UB casters. will burn themselves our in min time if kept under Control with ops and unable to retrain.
but a few in a kd for that mid size fast chain to phase out enemies, will be good. orcs bonus gains and extra cashualties will be great to start chains, and give them finishing blows.

Exactly no kd will run full Avian core, so ambush immunity is not a terrible thing. Just different obstacle to over come.

[Verminator]

smercjd is suggesting only def losses not both. But -40% as in this age is too much

Cleric is most chosen attacker personality this age by almost double the next one. That means it gets a nerf. Changes 101.

[Snuppe]

humans already have the ome boost.
difference this age OME for humans is in war only. and warriors has ome boost all the time.

next age they change is, humans have ome boost all the time, warriors gets ome boost in war.
kinda makes seince doesn't it. in war, the warrior is in it's true element and gets boosted.
both human and warrior OME despite of when it's active gets boosted by 5%.
not that big of a deal. change would enable me as human attacker to hit bigger oow and in hostile, just like orc and undead. I wouldn't have to wait for war like now. all of the top mopa races, orc, undead, human, dwarf can pick warrior and get the +ome in a war.

the only thing I Think makes good sense atm, to prevent avians to get rapid land fat and maby too good at chaining mid size targets is to give them the gain penalty and let humans keep the +30% science costs penalty they currently have. or maby up it to 40% if people find +30% book costs to be to weak of a penalty.

the ome doesn't make the human offense massively huge, makes it equal to the one of orcs and undeads. undead and orc elites 7 in off, humans 6, with racial ome at 20% that's 7,2. i's differs in 0.2 / elite only. with my 31k elites compared to orc elites at my 600k nw it would mean 217000 for the orc, 223200 for the human. omfg kill me now, 5200 more Points, so fkn Über, game is broken...

and all 4 of them can pick warrior for added 15% ome in war. so stop comparing human warrior mopa with like orc cleric mopa.

I say all 4 since I Count dwarves in as top mopa attackers, since with the +BE they can draft more and have a higher number of elites, end result is still the same. so when i got 31k elites as human/orc/ud I'd maby have 36-37k as dwarf and still keep same BE.

[nameisis]

humans already have the ome boost.
difference this age OME for humans is in war only. and warriors has ome boost all the time.

next age they change is, humans have ome boost all the time, warriors gets ome boost in war.
kinda makes seince doesn't it. in war, the warrior is in it's true element and gets boosted.
both human and warrior OME despite of when it's active gets boosted by 5%.
not that big of a deal. change would enable me as human attacker to hit bigger oow and in hostile, just like orc and undead. I wouldn't have to wait for war like now. all of the top mopa races, orc, undead, human, dwarf can pick warrior and get the +ome in a war.

the only thing I Think makes good sense atm, to prevent avians to get rapid land fat and maby too good at chaining mid size targets is to give them the gain penalty and let humans keep the +30% science costs penalty they currently have. or maby up it to 40% if people find +30% book costs to be to weak of a penalty.

the ome doesn't make the human offense massively huge, makes it equal to the one of orcs and undeads. undead and orc elites 7 in off, humans 6, with racial ome at 20% that's 7,2. i's differs in 0.2 / elite only. with my 31k elites compared to orc elites at my 600k nw it would mean 217000 for the orc, 223200 for the human. omfg kill me now, 5200 more Points, so fkn Über, game is broken...

and all 4 of them can pick warrior for added 15% ome in war. so stop comparing human warrior mopa with like orc cleric mopa.

I say all 4 since I Count dwarves in as top mopa attackers, since with the +BE they can draft more and have a higher number of elites, end result is still the same. so when i got 31k elites as human/orc/ud I'd maby have 36-37k as dwarf and still keep same BE.

You forgrt two things.

1) Human elite can defend and is much harder to ambush than ork leet.
2) Human gets free sci and ork gets negative sci in end making much diff there. In Pop, ME and Tm stuff.

So human is much stronger than ork, everywhere except raw OME. So -20% gains is good nerf

[Snuppe]

why is the thievery Always so much more enhanced then magic.

elves +30% spell success. -------------> 50%, all bad?
hafler +50% thievery operation success.

rogue +75% Thievery Science Effectiveness, starts with +400 thieves.
mystic +50% Magic Science Effectiveness, starts with 200 wizzards. ----------------> 75% and 400, all bad?

would it be unfair mage vs rogue if they had equal bonuses to their traits and personalities to their bonuses and starting numbers.
I'd almost Think it would be more fair to have mystic start with +400 and rogues +200 since it's alot easier to train a decent tpa then accumulate decent wpa for that oop war.

[nameisis]

Because there is no hard defense against mage ops, e.g. WT's. Same as wizzard can easily get rid of RM, while rogue might be having problems vortexing CS.