New Anticheat Measure Going Live Today

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Originally Posted by Byakuya

I would have to say that you are one of the very few that agree with your ideology of gaming. Take your CoD's and all of the other multiplayer games out there. The ones that are showing the most success are the ones that allow multiple players from the same household. Why do you think the Halo series has done so well? Awesome storyline? I think it helps, but the majority of those players enjoy playing most with friends and family from the same house. The best part about it, being on the same team. Answer me this... Are they lucrative? Do they experience cheaters? Do they come up with ways to resolve the problems? The answers; all yes.

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Can I start comparing apples to oranges again? Either way, your examples are flawed in 3 ways...
1. Playing split screen (i.e. with someone in your house) is without a doubt the worst way to play a shooter, especially if you're on a screen with <50inches. A lot of games don't even support split screen anymore.

2. 1v1'ing (or just playing against in general) your friends in FPS is amazing, especially if you're about as good as each other.

3. All of them stop cheating? lol. 5 words for you. One Man Army Noob Tubes.

I just want to add my 2 cents to the fun. I am sure people have already bought up all of these issues ,but I didn't read through all of the 51 other pages :). In short I really do understand the need to get rid of cheaters because they ruin the game, but I think the current measures that were put into place are going to do a few things that they were not intended today from a playerbase standpoint. A) It makes the game not fun for people who work, live, go to school, etc etc. together. Currently in my Kingdom the guy I work with is getting so frustrated he is getting ready to quit, and I was frustrated enough to create a forum account just to post about the issue. Not being able to hit chain targets is frustrating enough, but not being able to ambush people who have attacked you because someone else you play with attacked them is REALLY frustrating. B) Because of A you are limiting the growth of the game because now there is no way I would recruit anyone else from work to play because it would make it less fun for all three soon to be one of us that currently do play. I would assume the same scenario is going to play out across other portions of your player base. My suggestion would be to suspend the current system, and look for a way that you can stop cheaters but not harm the legitimate player base to the extent you are now.

Recruit them from work but play in different kds. Solved.

Stop putting hurdles in your own way.

is it just me or are all these moaners recently registered to the forum? cant cheat anymore can we? shame!

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Originally Posted by Rutro187

.....but not being able to ambush people who have attacked you because someone else you play with attacked them is REALLY frustrating.....

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lol this is tru? ok meh that is really nub.

fix it!

The answer of play in a different kingdom would fix the issue, but would create the problem of me and my friend wouldn't be playing together. To me it's the difference between purchasing two single player games and just both having it and talking about it and buying a multi-player game and playing together in the same guild/team and talking strategy and politics and all kinds of other things. I am also making the assumption that the Devs want people to play with their friends and that is one of the reasons they created the invite system. So saying play in different kingdoms to me is just an easy answer that in my opinion does not answer the root problem of I want to easily play with my friends.

And as far as just creating an account on the forums you are correct fluffy I have been playing for quite a few ages and only read stuff in the forums, this is the first time I have ever felt the need to post something in them.

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Originally Posted by Rutro187

playing together in the same guild/team and talking strategy and politics and all kinds of other things.

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You can't do that playing in different kds? You'll have twice as much to talk about...

I don't understand why would you want to play in a different kingdom then your friends play in? Right now we have 10 total friends that play why would we want to separate, I am asking because I don't understand why I shouldn't/wouldn't want to play in the same kingdom as my friend?

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Originally Posted by Rutro187

I don't understand why would you want to play in a different kingdom then your friends play in? Right now we have 10 total friends that play why would we want to separate, I am asking because I don't understand why I shouldn't/wouldn't want to play in the same kingdom as my friend?

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this game is all about team work and playing with mates is a HUGE part of the game - take that away and you take the sole of the game away. I played in ZZ for much longer than I should of purely because of the mates I had there and still have.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Sitting is not under discussion here. Move on.

We have to verify who it is that logs into a whitelisted account to ensure that the person logging in is who they say they are - otherwise you just paid to allow your partner to xlog you. You think the complaining for the IP block is bad, wait until you see what would happen if we went down that road.

The point you are making is not realistic, it is not scalable and it doesn't help the issue. Apart from the fact that it is a full time job maintaining the whitelist, to make cash off it we need to charge ~150usd to be whitelisted, maybe you think that is ok, I suspect the majority of our users would not.

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Actually Bishop, why wouldn't you have a premium service that would allow 2 people to say be "Whitelisted"? Depending on the cost, it would be similar to the invites. If as a monarch I run out of the free invites I can pay $10 to get another one. If the cost and maintenance are so high, cover that cost with a fee.

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Originally Posted by Joker1975

Actually Bishop, why wouldn't you have a premium service that would allow 2 people to say be "Whitelisted"? Depending on the cost, it would be similar to the invites. If as a monarch I run out of the free invites I can pay $10 to get another one. If the cost and maintenance are so high, cover that cost with a fee.

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oooo please please game mods let me invite (and pay) for my 'brother' to join my kingdom. please please please and my aunty and dad who all live with me. infact all 25 of us live in the same house. We will pay for them all.

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Originally Posted by fuzzy|

this game is all about team work and playing with mates is a HUGE part of the game - take that away and you take the sole of the game away. I played in ZZ for much longer than I should of purely because of the mates I had there and still have.

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And you guys from ZZ didn't cheat? 99.99% of all SKD's were cheating/breaking the rules. Off topic but just saying.

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Originally Posted by Joker1975

Actually Bishop, why wouldn't you have a premium service that would allow 2 people to say be "Whitelisted"? Depending on the cost, it would be similar to the invites. If as a monarch I run out of the free invites I can pay $10 to get another one. If the cost and maintenance are so high, cover that cost with a fee.

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How can you possibly think that is a good idea? Now you want pay to cheat options...

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Originally Posted by fuzzy|

oooo please please game mods let me invite (and pay) for my 'brother' to join my kingdom. please please please and my aunty and dad who all live with me. infact all 25 of us live in the same house. We will pay for them all.

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Nice flame. I'd love to see you run 25 provinces and do anything and pay for all 25 each age. I think you would run out of money pretty quick.

I'm talking about a different system that would be put in place to insure that someone different was playing the accounts. This would be a premium service but would require each player to have their own PC/computer. The current or expired whitelist allowed someone or couples to access the game from the same computer. What I'm talking about is a service available but only if each person had a separate computer. Each computer has it's own footprint that it sends out through the IP via cookies. If the cookies are deleted the person would have to be verified again or pay to get the cookie back.

Sitting a province costs money yet isn't blocked by the IP block that is in place because it is limited time frame as has been posted.

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Originally Posted by DHaran

How can you possibly think that is a good idea? Now you want pay to cheat options...

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Why would you just jump to a conclusion that we are talking about cheating? Read my other post.

A couple of pointers and questions, oh and don't call me a cheater just because I'm against this measure.
1) Playing with friends in the same kd is a big deal compared to being in different kds. And if you cannot interact its a big problem.
2) Restricting players way of playing is similar to living in a police state. "We are blocking you from doing this becaus you might do something that is not allowed".
3) Is cheating really that much of a problem? In any democratic society people have to accept that some crime will exist. Cheating will go on as long as someone is willing to cheat.
4) Do you have numbers on the activity level before and after the anti-cheat measure went live? Are people dropping off and do we know if they are multis or legit players leaving?
5) When it comes to crimes you are tried and convicted after a crime has been committed.
6) Why was feedback encouraged when its pretty clear its not appreciated?

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Originally Posted by DHaran

How can you possibly think that is a good idea? Now you want pay to cheat options...

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2 other things about this reply from you.

1. Bishop asked if I had other ideas on how to make a system work. This is one that covers a couple of issues that the mods and Bishop have said whitelisting didn't address. If it is set up properly it would eliminate cheaters from using it since it costs money. If they are already cheating for free why would they pay to do it? This new system does not stop cheating, it stops two or more people from playing the game from the same house/IP. Nothing more. If a person wants to cheat, he will cheat. There are ways around the IP block. I'm not interested in going that route. I would like to play the game without having to be sneaky or breaking rules.

2. How could I possibly think it is a good idea? There are many reasons I think it would be good. It brings money to the game. It brings players like me back to the game along with my daughter. It gives options to players. The game would still be free to the vast majority and only those that would be willing to pay for the service would be given the ability to play from the same home while paying for it would give the devs the money to cover the expense to monitor the system. Just like sitting you are giving someone the option to keep their province running instead of vacation mode but the difference is you pay for that right. Why wouldn't the devs be willing to let me pay to play this game from the same house as my daughter?

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Originally Posted by Joker1975

2 other things about this reply from you.

1. Bishop asked if I had other ideas on how to make a system work. This is one that covers a couple of issues that the mods and Bishop have said whitelisting didn't address. If it is set up properly it would eliminate cheaters from using it since it costs money. If they are already cheating for free why would they pay to do it? This new system does not stop cheating, it stops two or more people from playing the game from the same house/IP. Nothing more. If a person wants to cheat, he will cheat. There are ways around the IP block. I'm not interested in going that route. I would like to play the game without having to be sneaky or breaking rules.

2. How could I possibly think it is a good idea? There are many reasons I think it would be good. It brings money to the game. It brings players like me back to the game along with my daughter. It gives options to players. The game would still be free to the vast majority and only those that would be willing to pay for the service would be given the ability to play from the same home while paying for it would give the devs the money to cover the expense to monitor the system. Just like sitting you are giving someone the option to keep their province running instead of vacation mode but the difference is you pay for that right. Why wouldn't the devs be willing to let me pay to play this game from the same house as my daughter?

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It's just difficult to prove that you are two different individuals. How do Bishop know that your not the same person logging on and acting on behalf of your daughter? So if I said I have 10 brothers and they all want to play from the same computer and same kd, would you believe me? Probably not right?

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Originally Posted by Doddoen

A couple of pointers and questions, oh and don't call me a cheater just because I'm against this measure.
1) Playing with friends in the same kd is a big deal compared to being in different kds. And if you cannot interact its a big problem.
2) Restricting players way of playing is similar to living in a police state. "We are blocking you from doing this becaus you might do something that is not allowed".
3) Is cheating really that much of a problem? In any democratic society people have to accept that some crime will exist. Cheating will go on as long as someone is willing to cheat.
4) Do you have numbers on the activity level before and after the anti-cheat measure went live? Are people dropping off and do we know if they are multis or legit players leaving?
5) When it comes to crimes you are tried and convicted after a crime has been committed.
6) Why was feedback encouraged when its pretty clear its not appreciated?

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2 and 5.) This is a privately owned and operated website not a governmental agency or organization. If I'm a restaurant owner and some is trying to enter my restaurant and is not following my clearly posted rules, then it is my right to have them removed and to prevent them from ever entering my establishment. I don't have to wait until you enter and call the cops on you to enforce that decision, I can get a bouncer to stand at the door and prevent you from entering.
3.) And I suppose that the implementation of DRM technology was a bad idea too. I mean, we have to accept that some form of digital piracy is going to still occur, right? So we shouldn't do anything to make it harder for anyone to do it.
4.) He's already said somewhere that interaction has dropped 40%.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Why would you think cheaters go to the trouble of deleting their accounts? They let them go inactive.

We have seen a 40% decrease in reports of interactions since the system went live. If you are going to ROFLMAO try and ensure you know what you are talking about.

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6.) So we could work things out like the Singapore issue which, as far as I know, has been resolved. Also, there has been discussion on whether or not ambushes should be exempted, and good cases were made on both sides as to the consequences of making the exemption.

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Originally Posted by Joker1975

Nice flame. I'd love to see you run 25 provinces and do anything and pay for all 25 each age. I think you would run out of money pretty quick.

I'm talking about a different system that would be put in place to insure that someone different was playing the accounts. This would be a premium service but would require each player to have their own PC/computer. The current or expired whitelist allowed someone or couples to access the game from the same computer. What I'm talking about is a service available but only if each person had a separate computer. Each computer has it's own footprint that it sends out through the IP via cookies. If the cookies are deleted the person would have to be verified again or pay to get the cookie back.

Sitting a province costs money yet isn't blocked by the IP block that is in place because it is limited time frame as has been posted.

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Under your system, I could pay to run a province on my tablet and one on my PC. That's pretty open for abuse.

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Originally Posted by Ordray

Under your system, I could pay to run a province on my tablet and one on my PC. That's pretty open for abuse.

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Any system can be open for abuse. The current system is open for abuse.

How many people would be willing to pay to cheat? Not many if any IMO. Cheaters want things for free.

How many people would be willing to pay to play in the same KD? That is yet to be seen since it isn't an option.

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Originally Posted by xfex

It's just difficult to prove that you are two different individuals. How do Bishop know that your not the same person logging on and acting on behalf of your daughter? So if I said I have 10 brothers and they all want to play from the same computer and same kd, would you believe me? Probably not right?

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Would you be willing to pay for those 10 brothers to play? Probably not right?

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Originally Posted by Ordray

Under your system, I could pay to run a province on my tablet and one on my PC. That's pretty open for abuse.

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One thing I forgot to mention, if your tablet can access the internet through AT&T or some other carrier you can have two accounts. The IP system does not stop you from doing that either since your computer is on a land line and your tablet is not. Both would use a different IP. Correct?

Except my tablet is wifi only ;) But you are correct, I could. And if I had a phone with an internet connection on it, then I could run 3 in that hypothetical situation now. My point is is that I could potentially have the same IP on different devices and simply pay a small bit to run multiple provinces that could interact with each other in an unrestricted manner.

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Originally Posted by xfex

It's just difficult to prove that you are two different individuals. How do Bishop know that your not the same person logging on and acting on behalf of your daughter? So if I said I have 10 brothers and they all want to play from the same computer and same kd, would you believe me? Probably not right?

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He said Not the same computer... Please read the articulation fully

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Originally Posted by Ordray

Except my tablet is wifi only ;) But you are correct, I could. And if I had a phone with an internet connection on it, then I could run 3 in that hypothetical situation now. My point is is that I could potentially have the same IP on different devices and simply pay a small bit to run multiple provinces that could interact with each other in an unrestricted manner.

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It isn't necessarily a small bit to some of the people that play this game. If you can cheat for free, why pay?

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Originally Posted by Joker1975

How many people would be willing to pay to cheat? Not many if any IMO. Cheaters want things for free.

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People are willing to pay quite a bit to cheat in this game.

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Originally Posted by Ordray

Except my tablet is wifi only ;) But you are correct, I could. And if I had a phone with an internet connection on it, then I could run 3 in that hypothetical situation now. My point is is that I could potentially have the same IP on different devices and simply pay a small bit to run multiple provinces that could interact with each other in an unrestricted manner.

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Just because your tablet only has wifi does that mean every person who has one only has wifi? If I set up a tablet or iPad with a phone company and get 3G or 4G on my tablet then I can do exactly the same thing you are talking about doing without getting on a wifi. I put in my iPhone and now I run 3 devices unless my iPhone and iPad are on the same system and pull the same IP. I'm pretty sure the IP from my phone will not match the iPad since that would basically block anyone in the area from using their phones or pads.

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Originally Posted by Palem

People are willing to pay quite a bit to cheat in this game.

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My point isn't about cheating. When are you people going to get it. I'm trying to play by the rules.

Every argument that I have seen about this IP block being able to stop cheating is really that, just an argument. It doesn't stop anything. Read above. The main thing it does is stop someone like me from trying to play by the rules and be in the same KD as my daughter. Of course to all of you that want to flame say I'm just trying to run two accounts from my home.

This is the kind of response that just irks me to death.

Let me just requote exactly what you said...
"How many people would be willing to pay to cheat?"

You asked a direct question about cheaters and their willingness to pay money to cheat in this game. I answered your question directly and based off direct knowledge of people paying money to buy extra invites and setting up websites and such to cheat the system.

If you're honestly going to sit there and act like I'm somehow jerking you around and avoiding your points then I'm done trying to have any kind of honest discussion with you.

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Originally Posted by Palem

Let me just requote exactly what you said...
"How many people would be willing to pay to cheat?"

You asked a direct question about cheaters and their willingness to pay money to cheat in this game. I answered your question directly and based off direct knowledge of people paying money to buy extra invites and setting up websites and such to cheat the system.

If you're honestly going to sit there and act like I'm somehow jerking you around and avoiding your points then I'm done trying to have any kind of honest discussion with you.

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You don't get it. I guess it is because you don't want to. The question isn't about giving me a number. Can't you read the rest and see what I'm trying to say? Are you guys really that blind that you can't see facts? Or is is that you just don't want to see them unless you spout them off?

I'll say it again,

1. If I have a laptop on wifi that is one account.
2. If I have a iPad or tablet hooked up to AT&T or another carrier, that is 2 accounts.
3. If I have a smart phone that is 3 accounts that I can run and bypass your IP catcher.

Are you trying to tell me that your IP catcher will stop me from doing this? My guess is no since all three devices would have a different IP.

What I'm trying to suggest but seems to get lost in the flames is that I would be willing to pay money so that I wouldn't be restricted or blocked from playing this game in the same KD as my daughter. There are ways to track devices with foot prints from those devices.

Do you have a more feasible way to do this?

The blocks do not work in the same KD for players. As stated before if I get hit by a chained guy I cannot ambush that attack. It totally defeats the purpose of chaining a guy down and being able to keep him down. As a war goes on this issue compounds itself. This makes game play in the same KD unplayable no matter what kind of planning you have. Blocking the aid between provinces in the same KD is also pointless and takes away from the idea of being a team. You work together.

IPs aren't the only detection system - Palem has given you the correct answer, but you choose to ignore him and insist that your opinion is fact. Its not, sorry.

y u still tlkin bout dis? qq l2playlegit!

English? Talk to any IT who has half a brain and they can tell you that this new "implementation" simply does not work. Entering computer engineers can tell you that. The system is way too flawed to be considered a legitimate program, not to mention the overall terrible blanket implementation.

How would they have the slightest idea of how our systems work? It works, the fact that you dislike it doesnt change this.

FYI, the people that did this system have credentials far in excess of some IT guy.

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Originally Posted by Palem

Let me just requote exactly what you said...
"How many people would be willing to pay to cheat?"

You asked a direct question about cheaters and their willingness to pay money to cheat in this game. I answered your question directly and based off direct knowledge of people paying money to buy extra invites and setting up websites and such to cheat the system.

If you're honestly going to sit there and act like I'm somehow jerking you around and avoiding your points then I'm done trying to have any kind of honest discussion with you.

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Well how is this different from sitting shall I ask? You can PAY to SIT another province. You can PAY to play in the same kingdom. Why can you not PAY to play together? The point that you all miss is that it is too easy to cheat with today's technology any ways. Why not give honest players their bit? For example, I have two smart phones plus I go to a University (locations not permitted of course ;) and my computer. Math on that... Hmm I could create four accounts if I really wanted to, all with different IP's and I sincerely doubt that your little net would catch it if I did. So why not make money off the "cheaters" like you did with the sitters. You know why that was started and all; People circumventing the system. Lesson learned there, "cheaters will cheat, so let's make some money".

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Originally Posted by Bishop

How would they have the slightest idea of how our systems work? It works, the fact that you dislike it doesnt change this.

FYI, the people that did this system have credentials far in excess of some IT guy.

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Um, so why do we still have a "Tick" still?

As far as to the how of the system's workings... I believe you mentioned Google being a powerful tool earlier. I'm sure it could be figured out.

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Originally Posted by Byakuya

Well how is this different from sitting shall I ask? You can PAY to SIT another province. You can PAY to play in the same kingdom. Why can you not PAY to play together? The point that you all miss is that it is too easy to cheat with today's technology any ways. Why not give honest players their bit? For example, I have two smart phones plus I go to a University (locations not permitted of course ;) and my computer. Math on that... Hmm I could create four accounts if I really wanted to, all with different IP's and I sincerely doubt that your little net would catch it if I did. So why not make money off the "cheaters" like you did with the sitters. You know why that was started and all; People circumventing the system. Lesson learned there, "cheaters will cheat, so let's make some money".

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You can pay to play together- you get an invite. The point that you fail to grasp completely is that we are telling you this system is working as designed, but you chose to to ignore that. No one ever said it would catch every cheater, thats not the goal.

Lesson you need to learn, just because people can cheat doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to it.

Ticks have nothing to do with this system.

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Originally Posted by Joker1975

And you guys from ZZ didn't cheat? 99.99% of all SKD's were cheating/breaking the rules. Off topic but just saying.

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lol you sir miss read what I wrote - I was infact agreeing with one of your points about playing with friends.

http://blog.utopia-game.com/post/139...unexpected-and

Pay to Win Features :P
Nice touch. Can't say they have no humor :P

I wish I could read it. They're prolly funny :)