Age 54 Potential Changes Rev II

[Bishop]

Actually, I regard the learn protections as pretty criticle.

Not in the slightest.

[Sheister]

and so we disagree. As long as GB protection on learns does almost nothing it is very important for sages to have such protections. Otherwise having 8M books does very little for you.

/me shrugs.

[coboss]

Maxes on building are there for a reason. Some ppl would flame you for that, but let me explain something to you. would it make sense to run GSs to get -100% enemy gains?, or -100% military losses (would that make any sense?). It wouldnt make sense in game and out of game. Lots of your suggestions are weird|un-needed|one-sided just to fit your playing style and not considered into practical.

Maxes on buildings exist because of the bonus equation. The equation is subject to diminishing returns, which is a quadaratic equation (x*(x-1)). If the game allowed you to build over 50% then the equation would dictate that the bonus would actually go down [90% build = 10% build].

Why not have a way to get rid of riots? You have a way to get rid of plague. Maybe relate it to % of TD's you have. Just like hospitals give you a chance to clear plague. *shrugs* just throwing that out there.

I proposed last age to attach remove riots to L&P in the same way as plague is attached to NB.

[Love & Peace] Effect: Increases base birth rate from 2.05% to 2.80%. Has a 20% chance of quieting riots (per cast).

His calc for UD is wrong because he assumes 100% elite offense. Most UD would be happy if they managed 75% elites. So UD should be about 13 (5 + 0.75*9 + 0.25*5) in his chart. (But it's still a meaningless value)

With trainable elites, UDs can run full leets. Took me a lot of the age, but it is possible. Not entirely difficult to run 75% leets (and at least 7 EPA). Similar to sage, UDs get better as age goes on. Doesn't make his calc anymore worthwhile tho.

[Bishop]

and so we disagree. As long as GB protection on learns does almost nothing it is very important for sages to have such protections. Otherwise having 8M books does very little for you.

/me shrugs.

Build schools.

[Pillz]

If changes are final, why not close the thread and post them.
People are going to continue posting here otherwise, and then whine when ignored.

[carter]

Build schools.

This is as good as saying that the developers might as well remove the "+ 25% Science effectiveness" as Sage could build libraries. Or remove "All Guilds and Towers are twice as effective" and have Mystic players build more guilds and towers.

[Bishop]

Its nothing like saying that. Sage has inbuilt protection. If its not enough build more schools.

[dusk]

Bishop

The effective boost alone still leaves sage underpowered and to nerfed. Give it a cost reduction without it nobody can run extreme science. Even with the current science reduction to go extreme you need to run 40% banks and 30% schools and low draft. Make it possible to shine at this current set up a merchant can have the same science as a sage :( which is sad and wont have much more than most other people. Thus, leaving with no real advantage over other personalities.


Once again fix ambush as the way it is now really hurts when the person hit someone with scraps and twice and you have no more generals to get to your hit to ambush after hitting people.

[Tree10]

As far as Fae being nerfed: We ran non-sage Faes quite successfully this age, so you can't say nerfed sage is nerf for Fae, IMO.

[Landro]

With trainable elites, UDs can run full leets. Took me a lot of the age, but it is possible. Not entirely difficult to run 75% leets (and at least 7 EPA). Similar to sage, UDs get better as age goes on. Doesn't make his calc anymore worthwhile tho.

But can you sustain an UD army with more than 75% elites? UD have the most expensive elites so you'd have to plunder a lot to be able to keep replacing them. Orcs have extra gains from plunder and cheaper elites and Humans also have cheaper elites in addition to an income boost.

[Ahab]

If you want to buff sages without the automatic points or cost reduction, maybe give them +10-20% gains on learns.

[Lordwarallied]

Last time my kingdom used Shep was when it gave +10% pop. Since shep lost that it's not really useful anymore to a warring kingdom.
I'm not worried about SKDs. They have smart people who will find an alternative. Merchant for example if they aren't already using it.
Dragon protection sounds nice but how long does a kingdom suffer from dragons each age? Maybe 5 full days total. It's not really worth picking a personality just for that.

not in the time i played there. shep didnt have that bonus, and they took it with Orcs. running lower farms(1-2%), training like animals. It had immunity to some stuff, i cant recall which. Prolly storm, drought and plague. its almost like a UD no food bonuns.

Immunity to dragons is actually very useful. 5 days max with dragon? Is your kd a whoring or warring? I sure never got only 5 days. getting 1-2 drag on hostile, 4-5 in war...is a lot of troops and money to retrain,and when u decide to tank it, you get full penality, id say its very useful, specially to Attacker heavy kds. Some ppl would argue that then, the opposite kd wont have to spend on dragon. But we all know that its better to fund and send, then kill and retrain.

[UtopiaKarateKid]

What I feel quite certain is the Sage won't be boosted back again. For me it is quite clear for what I have seen, try have a look again, who else have the same feeling as this as mine?

- Look at Elf 50% and Hafler 50%, and then look at the reduce to 30% of Faery
- and then the lost of CS from Elf
- the lost of population from Hafler
- the lost of Mystic Aura
- the lost of WS to Undead
- the lost of Human 30% income
- the lost of Avian strong defence strength
- the lost of Dwarf Fog (a long time ago)

What does these changes tell you?

What I feel now is no race are meant to be able to turtle as effectively as before. Every races has a weakness which is so obvious to be seen now and to be broken, as they were design to be meant to be broken, and everyone is getting nervous and uneasy about it because the race they had known a long ago has become unsafe for themselves.

Thus bonuses like giving free science per acre or reduce science cost, which can enable a prov pump faster so they can defend themselves better in order for them to turtle, this is less likely will be happened, because I feel this is what the development team wanted. No more turtling is encouraged, no absolute defence from the past playing styles will be your safeguard, you have to go out and fight on the front, share the joy of gaining and the risk of losing together at the same time.

Any suggestions of changes that can lead to make a race to turtle more effectively will less likely to be taken, that's what I feel. The changes are concentrated mostly on offensive matters, less on defensive matters, instead some defensive matters have even been taken away for good. This is exactly what I feel, does anyone here feel the same as me too?


I hope the new rev will come in soon enough. The age is ending and the players would need some time to discuss with their kd what to plan with the next age.

[cln05350]

Why not fall back to the basics and look at the established definitions of each race and match traditional fantasy attributes /traits to them?

I?ll try to lay this out as best I can and define how I see it and why. This will be done by using the definitions from the Utopia Guide and then picking out key values and matching in-game mechanics .
Race Changes


-AVIANS

Key Values:
1) Avians have the unique ability to fly.
2) Their natural wilderness lifestyle and speed make them efficient and powerful warriors
3) hit and run tactics means they cannot conquer as much land as other races.
4) natural wilderness lifestyle and speed make them efficient and powerful warriors

Attribute Placement and why:
1) Speed. I would estimate a winged humanoid could move approx. 20-50% faster than a normal humanoid. 35% is a nice split.
2) Natural wilderness lifestyle implicates lower population and relying on foraged food.
3) Gains are reduced due to tactics.
4) Their Elites need to be adjusted, based on what we know is most offensive powerful (9/x) and defensively powerful ( x/6).


Avian

Bonuses:
-35% Attack Time

Penalty:
-10 Population
-10% Food consumption
- 10% attack gains
No Access to Stables

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Griffins (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Harpies (0/6)
* Elite Unit: Drake (8/3)




-DWARVES:

Key Values:
1) by far the most technologically advanced race in Utopia
2) have become excellent at building and using their land
3) takes them longer to complete similar projects by other races though it provides some protection from being overwhelmed in attacks
4) constitution (read stout and loud) hinders their thievery ability
5) Overall, Dwarves make good Attackers with minor magic abilities who can last in wars

Attribute placement and why:
1) Tech. BE should be significantly higher than all races
2) Building, forging, & stonemasonry come natural to a dwarf
3) Construction is slower, no acceleration
4) Thief ability/ops reduced
5) Fair warriors with natural resistance to magic


Dwarf

Bonuses:
+ 20% BE
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings
-20% Spell Damage from enemy (Instant Spells)

Penalty:
Accelerated Construction not available
Access to basic thievery operations only (neutral relations ops)

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Warriors (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Axemen (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Berserker (7/5)




-ELVES:

Key Values:
1) An intelligent group of individuals
2) known for their magical abilities and grant a high priority to the research of the arcane powers
3) able to regenerate their mana at a surprisingly quick rate
4) but are very versatile and can be used for attacking also
5) Traditionally, known for low constitution, defense is lower.

Attribute placement and why:
1) Science will naturally be a little higher than other races.
2) Naturalists at Arcanum, they need no runes
3) Elves are mystical creatures that are conduits of magic power
4) Fragile and thin, they lack in physical strengths


Elves

Bonuses:
+5% Science Effectiveness
No Runes Needed
+1 mana in war

Penalty:
No Access to Dungeons

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Rangers (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Archers (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Elf Lord (6/3)



-FAERY:

Key values:
1) Faeries excel at magic
2) subterfuge (largely due to their small size)
3) often known as the most peaceful of the Utopian races
4) considered fragile but noble

Attribute placement and why:
1) They are good at magic. So they are more destructive, but not near the arcane masters as Elves.
2) They are devious and small, able to do rogue-ish damage
3) They have little need for healthcare, for they are peaceful lot.
4) Honorable creatures, although small, bigger population

Faery

Bonuses:
+30% Magic Effectiveness
+30% Thievery Effectiveness
+10% Bonuses from Honor
+10 Population


Penalty:
No Access to Hospitals
No Access to Stables
Offensive Specialist Strength -1

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Magicians (4/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Druids (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Beastmasters (3/8, $1000, 8.0 nw)


-HALFINGS

Key Values:
1) famous for their quickness and Thievery skills
2) Their small stature makes them mediocre warriors, but also creates many unique advantages, petite size also results in the natural ability to substantially increase their effectiveness on certain thievery operations.
3) A race resembling tiny humans


Attribute Placement and why:
1) Halfings are notorious for thief abilities and should reflect it.
2) Mediocre means average at best
3) They are similar as human, so they should share the penalty.

Halflings

Bonuses:
+1 stealth
Espionage operations are 100% accurate in war
- 50% thief cost

Penalty:
- 20% Magic Effectiveness
- 1 Offensive Specialist Strength

Other Information:
* Soldiers: 2/2
* Offensive Specialist: Strongarms (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Slingers (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Brutes (5/6)



-HUMANS

Key Values:
1) most scholarly and noble of the races greatest interest in learning
2) considered a greedy and selfish bunch with very little magical ability but humans do know how to make money extremely well.
3) pretty versatile and prob. Most common race in the Utopia.

Attribute placement and why:
1) Their curiosity drives innovation and science
2) Better merchant abilities
3) Well balanced race and greater population



Humans

Bonuses:
+15% Science Effectiveness
+ 30% income
+10% Population

Penalty:
-25% Magic Effectiveness
+20% Exploration Costs

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Swordsmen (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Archers (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Knight (7/4)




-ORCS

Key Values:
1) most evil of the races, the Orcs are cruel, selfish, and arrogant
2) Lovers of destruction and chaos, they are one of the most ferocious and efficient warriors on the planet
3) their bloodthirsty nature, they require little time to draft and train troops
4) side effect of this is their lack of foresight in defending the lands they conquer
5) abilities in the arts of Magic and Thievery leave much to be desired
6) low sense of honour

Attribute placement and why:
1) They like to ravish lands, to gain ground
2) Being most efficient, they have best elite
3) Naturals to fighting, recruitment is not a factor
4) While strong, defensively average
5) Non-magical creatures for the most part
6) There is only rage and war, little honor to behold

Orcs

Bonuses:
+20 % gains
+25% Enemy Casualties on Attacks
Can train elites with credits
No Draft Costs
-30% Training Costs

Penalty:
-50% Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage
- 10% building efficiency
-50% honour
+40% Science Cost

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Goblins (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Trolls (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Ogre (9/2)



-UNDEAD

Key Values:
1) unnatural species with amazingly unique abilities
2) rotting to pieces and carry the plague
3) zombie-like nature (their brains are literally falling apart) makes it difficult for them to understand the arts of science

Attribute placement and why:
1) Undead are unnatural phenomena and require animation by necromantic means
2) Naturally hard to kill and normal weapons do little damage, they take less losses.
3) Rotting flesh, level drains, and horror strike the enemy deeply, thus the plague
4) Undead are hungry?for brains!


The Undead

Bonuses:
Animate Dead spell always active
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed

Penalty:
- 25% science effectiveness
Access to basic thievery operations only (neutral relations ops)

Other Information:
* Offensive Specialist: Skeletons (5/0)
* Defensive Specialist: Zombies (0/5)
* Elite Unit: Ghoul (9/3)



Personality Changes

The Merchant
+30% Income
-50% Money Losses on Plunder Attacks
Immunity to all Income Penalties (Riots, Plagues, etc.)


The Sage
+ 20% Science effectiveness
- 20% Book Costs
-20% Research Time
-75% Losses on Learn Attacks
Every 4 Acres of land produces 1 Science Book per Hour



The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
Thieves Dens are twice as effective (subject to DBE)

The Mystic
Access to Meteor Showers
All Guilds and Towers are twice as effective
+ 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
+50% Spell Duration (For Duration Spells Only)
+1 mana per tick in War


The Warrior
+20% Enemy Casualties (on attack or defense)
15% more OME in war
+ 50% bonuses from honor

The Tactician
+1 General
Enhanced Conquest range
-15% Attack Time
-50% Land Losses when Ambushed


The Cleric
- 50% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Immune to The Plague

The Shepherd
Land generates 4 bushels of food per acre daily
Immune to Droughts, Storms, the Plague and Dragons.




***I didnt take time to do the spells per race, but Meteor Shower should only be available to a personality (Mystic).

long time fan of the game(started playing Earth back in 1998), just my 2 cents.

[Lordwarallied]

Maxes on buildings exist because of the bonus equation. The equation is subject to diminishing returns, which is a quadaratic equation (x*(x-1)). If the game allowed you to build over 50% then the equation would dictate that the bonus would actually go down [90% build = 10% build].

I know, that doesnt mean its not achievable and it doesnt mean maxing up is hard dude. Dwarves easily could pull it off. actually, all races besides Orcs can pull it off. Most buildings have a high bonus per %. Getting the max isnt that hard. Limits was there to prevent abuse AND because there is only so much a build could really help into a category. Hospitals for instance, cannot prevent all deaths