Let us just be clear here, Evil Dragons aren't some "utopia police" nor do we want to play the role of policing the game. What we do have however is our beliefs of what is considered fair and what is unacceptable, we're also not perfect and we have some players who should engage their brains for longer before they engage their mouths at times, however they are our players and we live with their actions.
The conflict with Strippers is very simple, we were under prepared and messaged multiple kingdoms to ask it they would be interested in a war of which Strippers decided to turn "are you interested in a min time war, where whoever is down on land surrenders, let us know?" into "come and steal from us in EoWCF". Where peoples opinion on Strippers actions stand are their own decision to make, I feel that it was a d**k move to not have the courtesy of replying before doing ops but equally many would consider it smart.
As for our loss to Strippers, I have no issue with it, I said we should stand by our word and surrender despite some who wanted to drag the war to EoA which was only a few days away, most of us felt Strippers wouldn't have surrendered if the roles were reversed but that is not a reason to break our own agreements, most of us can remember when a KD's word actually meant something over the ages.
Besides the fact many of us felt Strippers were jerks stealing into EoWCF (a sentiment which it appears many KD's also share both openly in this thread and in private) there was the message from Strippers monarch about how we should surrender early, which at best was foolishly worded and did get a reaction of one of our players telling Strippers they sucked in the forums. This however isn't pre-school where you get to argue over "who started it", rightly or wrongly the issue arose from Strippers message to us and was continued by multiple provinces from Strippers telling ED that they were trash and how they would beat them next age, again I'm not going to say ED players did not reply in kind however if Strippers chose not to take issue with what was said then this is their prerogative just as it is ours.
Fast forward a few weeks, Strippers is now Debauchery and has changed some players, the core of the KD who stole from us and who stand by the players who flamed us are still there just because you rebrand your KD does not absolve you of the past, however even trying to go down that route is foolish considering Debauchery players have called out ED in this thread, this age. You called us and we came, that's not to say that all of Debauchery's players are idiots I've read some rational and reasoned conversations from some of them, it does not change the number of them who openly challenged ED.
To our actions this age, you were within NW range of us we are within our right to wave you. We didn't go crying when we got hit 5 times in retal for one hit by a KD 120% of our size, we took them to war as we gave you the option to do to us. However you refused, hiding behind tired excuses of not being prepared despite only ~8% NW gap ~4% land gap and 10 NWA difference, wanting us to cancel our paid for dragon and provide you with 4 full days of pumping (ontop of the 3 you'd had in EoWCF before we targeted you).
Debauchery chose instead to take those hits and do nothing, it is reasonable to assume that as #2 honour then Debauchery had an eye on taking #1 for this age hence as we cannot remove their war wins we decided to remove their honour, especially as ED was also ranked ~#7 at the time. Since you cannot effectively honour farm OOW taking ~70 max per TM we decided to raze and remove their honour, I see nothing at all wrong with hitting another KD to secure a higher position in charts, they refused to give us a war which we might win and they refused to give us another viable way to take their honour (along with pushing the button being an effective way to totally end any raze kill activity).
It amazes me how Debauchery look to play the bullied party, we came for a 1v1 fight and you attempted diplomacy which included allowing us to raze kill a province of your choice if we moved on. Your diplomacy failed as your terms were not satisfactory, just because you throw up a CF does not mean that it needs to be accepted. You're not some KD half our size, you had 1 province less than us and a slight size disadvantage everything which happened after our wave was your choice to let happen.
For our dealings with The Unsullied, we asked them if they wanted a war and got the following message:
Recipient King Enrage Those Nips the Blessed of Love is Grand ()
Subject Re:hi sailor!
I'll talk it over with my peeps and let you know. Tentatively yes though ;)
But maybe in 2 days.
We then get 3rd parties coming and asking us to stop hits on them, they were also razed by outside KDs to land drop during this time and then eventually played the "you're too big for us" card. So after we wasted our time waiting for a KD to decide if they wanted to war us while land dropping then decide we're too big we weren't overly happy. Throw in the fact that we offered to defect out a province so we'd have one less player and drop our NW ~200k but them still refuse because we had started a dragon then we decided to act.
Again, I fail to see the problem with us razing them, they were extremely close to our size and could well have chosen to defend their province by attacking us back or even taking us to war. But instead they chose to sit back and let us kill one of their provinces, this isn't some 50 mil NW KD bullying a 2 mil NW KD here, these are supposed to be "war KDs" yet the second they don't have an advantage or feel they might lose they just run away. Personally I like the concept of razes and believe it's something that needs to be played with more, it apparently pee's some people off no end to be killed in a game and it forces a kingdoms hand, they can lose a province or they can protect them via war maybe it's time for a new meta game to war KDs?
At the end of the day, I think ED fully expected that we'd get "paid back" for raze killing a province and I personally have no problem with that at all. All that has been achieved here is that The Unsullied and Debauchery have shown utopia exactly how pathetic they are. Of course we're all well aware that there are idiots in both of those KDs who are at home in the xbox live generation of hooting and whooping about how amazing OOW razing a KD is but the reality to those not blinded by stupidity is that both of you will run from fights and are easy to power play. Maybe next time you want to claim you had nothing to do with assisting Debauchery you might not want to be caught helping land drop and having people with ops in each others channels to scratch the surface.
Part of me would have loved nothing more than seeing Debauchery's land def provinces all dead now, but maybe I'm just getting old and bitter these days as I seem to take more pleasure in watching them capitulate against us alone.