I said this before and will say it again.
Guys, stop fighting with them. Seriously. What do you expect to happen? They suddenly understand logic and say 'oh you're right now that I think about it..'?
Doing the same thing expecting something different is insanity. Or are you doing it because you enjoy it? If so then grow up.
You explained it enough. It is clear they don't/won't/refuse to get it. Let them say what they want.
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